Comments on: 5 Myths about going to law school http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:47:54 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Wilbert http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-207426 Wilbert Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:23:17 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-207426 I had considered going to law school for a while when in college. Even though I took politics I always though i could make a good lawyer. Then I decided against it because it was something that I knew that wouldn't make me happy. Plus I hate internships... I had considered going to law school for a while when in college. Even though I took politics I always though i could make a good lawyer. Then I decided against it because it was something that I knew that wouldn't make me happy. Plus I hate internships…

]]> By: Nando http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-203594 Nando Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:19:34 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-203594 To irrationally optimististic pre-law students: Law school is a trap for most. Many go to law school for idealistic reasons. However, once one takes on six-figure student loan debt, representing indigent defendants loses some of its appeal. Optimism often comes with a high price. You have been warned by many lawyers and JDs on this board and others. Most do not have an axe to grind; they simply want you to avoid the mistake they made, i.e. deciding to attend law school. The reality is that the market for lawyers has been saturated for DECADES. This is not merely a symptom of the current state of the economy. There are nowhere near enough lawyer jobs to satisfy 45,000 fresh JDs every year. Your legal education will make you overqualified for most non-law jobs. Employers will think you are crazy for not joining a firm and becoming a "wealthy lawyer." Others will be leery to hire and train someone who they think will wait for a lawyer job to come up. To AJU, a J.D. is not universally respected. Yes, it shows drive and initiative. But the average American despises lawyers and the "profession" of law. They recognize law as a racket. To irrationally optimististic pre-law students: Law school is a trap for most. Many go to law school for idealistic reasons. However, once one takes on six-figure student loan debt, representing indigent defendants loses some of its appeal.

Optimism often comes with a high price. You have been warned by many lawyers and JDs on this board and others. Most do not have an axe to grind; they simply want you to avoid the mistake they made, i.e. deciding to attend law school.

The reality is that the market for lawyers has been saturated for DECADES. This is not merely a symptom of the current state of the economy. There are nowhere near enough lawyer jobs to satisfy 45,000 fresh JDs every year.

Your legal education will make you overqualified for most non-law jobs. Employers will think you are crazy for not joining a firm and becoming a "wealthy lawyer." Others will be leery to hire and train someone who they think will wait for a lawyer job to come up.

To AJU, a J.D. is not universally respected. Yes, it shows drive and initiative. But the average American despises lawyers and the "profession" of law. They recognize law as a racket.

]]> By: Paul http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-196974 Paul Fri, 04 Sep 2009 04:21:26 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-196974 I recently completed my engineering degree and am trying to get into law school next year. I don't care much for the top tier universities since I can get into my local tier 3 law school without having to take out any loans. However, my true goal is to get into politics, preferably local politics such as city council. I've found that most politicians either get into the game two ways: they have family connections or they have a law degree. Since I don't have any politicians as relatives, law school seems like the logical path for me. I don't see any need to waste money on a top tier school when almost every local politician I see attended law school at the same tier 3 school I am applying to. I just thought I'd throw politics into the mix, since I hadn't seen it mentioned on here yet. If anyone has anything to comment on that path, I'd be happy to hear from you. I came across this article while researching engineers and law school. I got my engineering degree with relative ease. I rarely studied or put in work and I graduated with honors. I took a couple engineering law electives with law students in school. My teacher was a lawyer/engineer. He told me that he had never seen an engineer who could not make it through law school, but he rarely saw a law student that could make it through engineering. I recently completed my engineering degree and am trying to get into law school next year. I don't care much for the top tier universities since I can get into my local tier 3 law school without having to take out any loans.

However, my true goal is to get into politics, preferably local politics such as city council. I've found that most politicians either get into the game two ways: they have family connections or they have a law degree. Since I don't have any politicians as relatives, law school seems like the logical path for me.

I don't see any need to waste money on a top tier school when almost every local politician I see attended law school at the same tier 3 school I am applying to.

I just thought I'd throw politics into the mix, since I hadn't seen it mentioned on here yet. If anyone has anything to comment on that path, I'd be happy to hear from you.

I came across this article while researching engineers and law school. I got my engineering degree with relative ease. I rarely studied or put in work and I graduated with honors. I took a couple engineering law electives with law students in school. My teacher was a lawyer/engineer. He told me that he had never seen an engineer who could not make it through law school, but he rarely saw a law student that could make it through engineering.

]]> By: Arnold http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-196425 Arnold Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:22:39 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-196425 Great job taking down the soundness of his argument. Great job taking down the soundness of his argument.

]]> By: whigrose http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-194504 whigrose Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:21:08 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-194504 You know what really drives me crazy? Sure, part of the reason I went to law school was uncertainty about my future career. After all, I was an English major in undergrad. Still, I decided I really wanted to work with discrimination law in some way. And if I could do that, I'd be happy. I did intern with the EEOC for a year, but with a hiring freeze when I graduated in 2003, I was locked out. After a year and a half of looking, I found a state level clerkship. It was great! Well, work wise it was great, though the pay sucked of course. I handled all sorts of cases--even one on adverse possession. Bet that's something you lawyers out there never thought you'd see in real life. I had fun for the 3 years I was there. But the reality of it was, my husband and I needed more money. We were in a big city (which we wanted to leave anyway) and were having trouble making ends meet. So, I took a job which doubled my pay overnight starting in 2008. It wasn't exactly the field I wanted. Yes, it was insurance defense, Workers Comp to be exact. I thought the job was going to last and even if it didn't, hey, it wasn't too far from employment law so it would just be another feather in my cap. Sadly, it didn't last. With the recession setting in, their workload tanked. But of course, I still got blamed for not making those precious billables. Besides that, I was interviewed by the firm's Chief Financial Officer (not even a lawyer!) and sent to work in an office where no one had the chance to meet me. Needless to say, they didn't welcome me with open arms. The situation was horrendous from the start and I ended up quitting so I wouldn't have to say they fired me or even asked me to leave. Now, I'm out of work and looking again. Going on another year and a half without a job. We've moved since then. My hubby is thankfully in a high demand career field so he's doing well. The town we moved to, well, it is less than friendly to outside attorneys coming in. There's a federal job I applied for which closed out on Monday that I really, really want. It would envolve EEO work plus contracts--right up my alley. But if I don't get it, there aren't a lot of other opportunities out there. I feel very trapped and disgusted by my situation. So at the end of the day, I'd have to steer people away from getting a JD too. I guess I'm a rarity, in a way. I went to law school for partly bad reasons, partly good ones, and at the end of it all, decided being a lawyer wouldn't be so bad if I could find the right fit for me. But oh how hard it is to find that right fit! And yes, my grades still haunt me. I went to a top tier school (ranked mid 30's) but had only middle of the road grades. Infuriates me that people still ask about that even though I'm so far out and have a clerkship under my belt. So here's hoping lightening strikes, the tide turns, fortune shines upon me--whatever turn of phrase you care to use--and I land my dream job within the next month or so. 'Cause if I don't, who knows what I'll be able to do with that blasted law degree? You know what really drives me crazy? Sure, part of the reason I went to law school was uncertainty about my future career. After all, I was an English major in undergrad. Still, I decided I really wanted to work with discrimination law in some way. And if I could do that, I'd be happy. I did intern with the EEOC for a year, but with a hiring freeze when I graduated in 2003, I was locked out. After a year and a half of looking, I found a state level clerkship. It was great! Well, work wise it was great, though the pay sucked of course. I handled all sorts of cases–even one on adverse possession. Bet that's something you lawyers out there never thought you'd see in real life. I had fun for the 3 years I was there. But the reality of it was, my husband and I needed more money. We were in a big city (which we wanted to leave anyway) and were having trouble making ends meet. So, I took a job which doubled my pay overnight starting in 2008. It wasn't exactly the field I wanted. Yes, it was insurance defense, Workers Comp to be exact. I thought the job was going to last and even if it didn't, hey, it wasn't too far from employment law so it would just be another feather in my cap. Sadly, it didn't last. With the recession setting in, their workload tanked. But of course, I still got blamed for not making those precious billables. Besides that, I was interviewed by the firm's Chief Financial Officer (not even a lawyer!) and sent to work in an office where no one had the chance to meet me. Needless to say, they didn't welcome me with open arms. The situation was horrendous from the start and I ended up quitting so I wouldn't have to say they fired me or even asked me to leave. Now, I'm out of work and looking again. Going on another year and a half without a job. We've moved since then. My hubby is thankfully in a high demand career field so he's doing well. The town we moved to, well, it is less than friendly to outside attorneys coming in. There's a federal job I applied for which closed out on Monday that I really, really want. It would envolve EEO work plus contracts–right up my alley. But if I don't get it, there aren't a lot of other opportunities out there. I feel very trapped and disgusted by my situation. So at the end of the day, I'd have to steer people away from getting a JD too. I guess I'm a rarity, in a way. I went to law school for partly bad reasons, partly good ones, and at the end of it all, decided being a lawyer wouldn't be so bad if I could find the right fit for me. But oh how hard it is to find that right fit! And yes, my grades still haunt me. I went to a top tier school (ranked mid 30's) but had only middle of the road grades. Infuriates me that people still ask about that even though I'm so far out and have a clerkship under my belt. So here's hoping lightening strikes, the tide turns, fortune shines upon me–whatever turn of phrase you care to use–and I land my dream job within the next month or so. 'Cause if I don't, who knows what I'll be able to do with that blasted law degree?

]]> By: Anon http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-192636 Anon Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:01:27 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-192636 It is unwise to underestimate the impact that hating your job will have on your life. I graduated top of my class from a top state school, so I did get THE job at a large law firm and had no debt. I was basically just pocketing cash, and after 4 years I had saved a ton of money. It didn't help. The job was so stressful and time-consuming, the partners and senior associates so abusive, that I either cried or worked out until I passed out every day after work. I dreaded every Monday. It impacted my marriage, my family life, everything. Although I have left the profession, I don't think I will ever fully "get over" staying in a career I hated from the first day of law school. I have met lawyers who are happy, but they tend to fit into one of two camps: (1) extremely introverted individuals who are uber-nerds and control freaks and (2) litigators who love people, love drama and love the game. If I had it to do over again, I would have quit law school and never looked back. It is unwise to underestimate the impact that hating your job will have on your life. I graduated top of my class from a top state school, so I did get THE job at a large law firm and had no debt. I was basically just pocketing cash, and after 4 years I had saved a ton of money. It didn't help. The job was so stressful and time-consuming, the partners and senior associates so abusive, that I either cried or worked out until I passed out every day after work. I dreaded every Monday. It impacted my marriage, my family life, everything. Although I have left the profession, I don't think I will ever fully "get over" staying in a career I hated from the first day of law school. I have met lawyers who are happy, but they tend to fit into one of two camps: (1) extremely introverted individuals who are uber-nerds and control freaks and (2) litigators who love people, love drama and love the game. If I had it to do over again, I would have quit law school and never looked back.

]]> By: S.G. http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-190670 S.G. Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:13:56 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-190670 AGREE. AGREE.

]]> By: Ohio lawyer http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-190666 Ohio lawyer Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:01:14 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-190666 Unless you have time and money to burn, I am very dubious of the idea that it is worth three years of hard work and considerable expense to get a JD if you don't plan to practice law. Unless you have time and money to burn, I am very dubious of the idea that it is worth three years of hard work and considerable expense to get a JD if you don't plan to practice law.

]]> By: AJU http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-190665 AJU Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:54:36 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-190665 While the article stated some particular truths, I am still a believer in one's own initiative and perserverance. I do agree with the statement that you should not pursue a career in law if all you want is money. I will give an example of myself. Having just graduated with an undergrad in Finance and Accounting, I was fortunate to find a job at one of the best financial firms in the world. And on top of that, I am working in corporate securities, a field that I would entertain should I decide to go to law school. I am a strong believer in the 2-4 yrs work stipulation before law school. Law school should not be about trying to put your name on a high risk trade a person doesn't have any keen interest towards. It should be about being firm and confident in your resolve and abilities in pursuing a career, not a job. And I really think that cannot be established without garnering work experience, and also knowing the true value of a dollar. Best of luck to anyone pursuing a law degree. All else, there are many opportunities with a J.D. available if a person decides not to pursue the lawyer path. My motivation would also stem from the point of view that a law degree is a universally respected degree! While the article stated some particular truths, I am still a believer in one's own initiative and perserverance. I do agree with the statement that you should not pursue a career in law if all you want is money. I will give an example of myself. Having just graduated with an undergrad in Finance and Accounting, I was fortunate to find a job at one of the best financial firms in the world. And on top of that, I am working in corporate securities, a field that I would entertain should I decide to go to law school. I am a strong believer in the 2-4 yrs work stipulation before law school. Law school should not be about trying to put your name on a high risk trade a person doesn't have any keen interest towards. It should be about being firm and confident in your resolve and abilities in pursuing a career, not a job. And I really think that cannot be established without garnering work experience, and also knowing the true value of a dollar. Best of luck to anyone pursuing a law degree.

All else, there are many opportunities with a J.D. available if a person decides not to pursue the lawyer path. My motivation would also stem from the point of view that a law degree is a universally respected degree!

]]> By: Lauren http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/comment-page-2/#comment-189746 Lauren Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:15:11 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/16/five-myths-about-going-to-law-school/#comment-189746 buggy whips? haha! very funny, yet sadly kinda true. buggy whips? haha! very funny, yet sadly kinda true.

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