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	<title>Comments on: New agenda for workplace activism: Keep marriages together</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
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		<title>By: Gloria</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-2/#comment-137045</link>
		<dc:creator>Gloria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-137045</guid>
		<description>I suppose it takes a lot of maturity for a marriage to work, with or without the factor of working or stay at home mom. The reasons that kept marriages working in previous generations seems to resume importance in the current one probably in a more conscious way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose it takes a lot of maturity for a marriage to work, with or without the factor of working or stay at home mom. The reasons that kept marriages working in previous generations seems to resume importance in the current one probably in a more conscious way.</p>
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		<title>By: Confessions of a Shiftless Mind &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Careers, Passions, and Some Good Reads</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-2/#comment-105284</link>
		<dc:creator>Confessions of a Shiftless Mind &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Careers, Passions, and Some Good Reads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-105284</guid>
		<description>[...] New Agenda For Workplace Activism - Keep Marriages Together - you have to read it. She tells it like it is - divorced parents who sale their guilt by telling themselves (and you) that &#8220;the kids are better off because their parents are happier&#8221; are LYING. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] New Agenda For Workplace Activism &#8211; Keep Marriages Together &#8211; you have to read it. She tells it like it is &#8211; divorced parents who sale their guilt by telling themselves (and you) that &#034;the kids are better off because their parents are happier&#034; are LYING. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gt</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-96323</link>
		<dc:creator>gt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-96323</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll throw in my two cents worth.  Both spouses working can work out if both are willing to work on what is important to them.  If that is marriage, then work on the marriage.  If both don&#039;t agree, then there is only discontentment in the future for at least one of the partners.  
Women in the workplace has been a commonplace for some time now, but it was not as common within my lifetime.  In general, most of the women who worked in the 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s were single, young and with no children.  Many women went to work in hopes of finding a man to marry and to settle down and then stay home.  As more women ventured into the workplace for greater reasons than to meet their eventual spouse, marriages seem to have begun to suffer more.  The divorce rate has been higher in the decades that appear statistically to coincide with the increase in women in the workplace.  Much of this can probably be attributed to the extra stress added to the family to cope with the change in management of the family&#039;s needs (children, shared finances, etc.).  Still other reasons appear to be womens&#039; discovery that they can earn their own way and no longer need the financial support of a man, so it has become an easier decision for some to opt-out of their financial dependant marriage.  Other statistics show a higher level of divorce probably due to more women being around more men in the workplace creating social situations that didn&#039;t exist before when women stayed at home and didn&#039;t have the opportunity to meet so many single or married men.  The office place has been cited as the single most dangerous spot for the development of affairs and subsequently divorce for many.  That&#039;s not to say women should leave the workforce, but rather it has become apparent that given the chance to be away from home, women have had an equal opportunity to do the same &quot;damage&quot; to their marriages as men have been singled out as the past.  for instance, it is difficult to believe that men still far exceed the percentages of the gender that has the most affairs.  Unless it is only single women and married men who have affairs, then it would seem logical that there are closer to an equal number of women as men having affairs.  Men tend to report this type of behavior more accurately as it is still not quite the stigma as if women reported the same.  

So if one is to put these observations together, it would seem to make sense from the &quot;keep your marriage intact by staying at home arguement&quot; could be valid.  However, does a woman want to stay at home and risk having no financial protection in case her husband leaves her?  For many women that answer is &quot;no!&quot;.  Many states do not award maintenance payments after divorce anymore.  
Many women appear to be either wired from birth or acquire from learned behaviors that their number one need is to take care of themselves by virtue of finances, either by their own work or by acquired works (their husbands).  Many women seem to sacrifice their souls for the man they are unhappily married to just so they can have financial security.  I can understand the need of women to do something that they like to do, be it work or stay at home.  Everyone, man or woman, should decide for themselves what is most comfortable and fulfilling.  Unfortunately, we don&#039;t always get what we want, and that creates conflict with ourselves and to those around us.  Both sexes in the workplace has done a lot of good and bad at the same time.  Greater productivity, greater diversity in views, etc.  But the sacrifice seems to have been the integrity of the marriage and family.  Women don&#039;t need men as much (at least the ones who are in it for the money).  Women and men are more apt to stray outside of their marriages when put together in close social environments, like the workplace.  Children suffer with one or now both parents spread thin between work and household duties.  I believe we can all learn how to adjust to both spouses working, but there will most likely need to be some sacrifice by one or both.  That will probably only work if there is no resentment or inequality (at least perceived) of the sacrifice.  As humans, we all knowingly or not, admit to ourselves or not, keep tallies of what we think we deserve or owe to others.  Unfortunately, also as humans, there is a tendancy towards selfishness so the tallies tend to be scewed towards getting more than giving. 

The workplace is great for business, but really for many reasons does not seem to be good for the marriage and family if both spouses work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ll throw in my two cents worth.  Both spouses working can work out if both are willing to work on what is important to them.  If that is marriage, then work on the marriage.  If both don&#039;t agree, then there is only discontentment in the future for at least one of the partners.<br />
Women in the workplace has been a commonplace for some time now, but it was not as common within my lifetime.  In general, most of the women who worked in the 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s were single, young and with no children.  Many women went to work in hopes of finding a man to marry and to settle down and then stay home.  As more women ventured into the workplace for greater reasons than to meet their eventual spouse, marriages seem to have begun to suffer more.  The divorce rate has been higher in the decades that appear statistically to coincide with the increase in women in the workplace.  Much of this can probably be attributed to the extra stress added to the family to cope with the change in management of the family&#039;s needs (children, shared finances, etc.).  Still other reasons appear to be womens&#039; discovery that they can earn their own way and no longer need the financial support of a man, so it has become an easier decision for some to opt-out of their financial dependant marriage.  Other statistics show a higher level of divorce probably due to more women being around more men in the workplace creating social situations that didn&#039;t exist before when women stayed at home and didn&#039;t have the opportunity to meet so many single or married men.  The office place has been cited as the single most dangerous spot for the development of affairs and subsequently divorce for many.  That&#039;s not to say women should leave the workforce, but rather it has become apparent that given the chance to be away from home, women have had an equal opportunity to do the same &#034;damage&#034; to their marriages as men have been singled out as the past.  for instance, it is difficult to believe that men still far exceed the percentages of the gender that has the most affairs.  Unless it is only single women and married men who have affairs, then it would seem logical that there are closer to an equal number of women as men having affairs.  Men tend to report this type of behavior more accurately as it is still not quite the stigma as if women reported the same.  </p>
<p>So if one is to put these observations together, it would seem to make sense from the &#034;keep your marriage intact by staying at home arguement&#034; could be valid.  However, does a woman want to stay at home and risk having no financial protection in case her husband leaves her?  For many women that answer is &#034;no!&#034;.  Many states do not award maintenance payments after divorce anymore.<br />
Many women appear to be either wired from birth or acquire from learned behaviors that their number one need is to take care of themselves by virtue of finances, either by their own work or by acquired works (their husbands).  Many women seem to sacrifice their souls for the man they are unhappily married to just so they can have financial security.  I can understand the need of women to do something that they like to do, be it work or stay at home.  Everyone, man or woman, should decide for themselves what is most comfortable and fulfilling.  Unfortunately, we don&#039;t always get what we want, and that creates conflict with ourselves and to those around us.  Both sexes in the workplace has done a lot of good and bad at the same time.  Greater productivity, greater diversity in views, etc.  But the sacrifice seems to have been the integrity of the marriage and family.  Women don&#039;t need men as much (at least the ones who are in it for the money).  Women and men are more apt to stray outside of their marriages when put together in close social environments, like the workplace.  Children suffer with one or now both parents spread thin between work and household duties.  I believe we can all learn how to adjust to both spouses working, but there will most likely need to be some sacrifice by one or both.  That will probably only work if there is no resentment or inequality (at least perceived) of the sacrifice.  As humans, we all knowingly or not, admit to ourselves or not, keep tallies of what we think we deserve or owe to others.  Unfortunately, also as humans, there is a tendancy towards selfishness so the tallies tend to be scewed towards getting more than giving. </p>
<p>The workplace is great for business, but really for many reasons does not seem to be good for the marriage and family if both spouses work.</p>
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		<title>By: Work It, Mom! &#124; A Community for Professional Moms</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-88294</link>
		<dc:creator>Work It, Mom! &#124; A Community for Professional Moms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-88294</guid>
		<description>[...] This can, of course, result in challenges when trying to balance the demands of working and parenting. And I think we all talk about that particular balancing act; we all want to be our best professionally and be our best for our kids&#8230; but between those two things and taking care of the minutiae of life, we often forget that we need to take care of ourselves (as Nataly has already noted). And then there&#8217;s our marriages or partnerships, if we happen to have them, as Penelope Trunk recently addressed with great eloquence. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This can, of course, result in challenges when trying to balance the demands of working and parenting. And I think we all talk about that particular balancing act; we all want to be our best professionally and be our best for our kids&#8230; but between those two things and taking care of the minutiae of life, we often forget that we need to take care of ourselves (as Nataly has already noted). And then there&#039;s our marriages or partnerships, if we happen to have them, as Penelope Trunk recently addressed with great eloquence. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grace Chase</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-84639</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-84639</guid>
		<description>What makes marriage work for me is that it is living with my best friend. As long as we share things with each other and care about each other&#039;s feelings it goes really well. If you feel you are neglecting those areas, then just focus a little more on them. If you feel your spouse is neglecting those areas, give them the benefit of the doubt while heaping love on them and gentle reminders of what would make you feel included and cared for. The times I&#039;ve gotten myself into a bad marriage moment have been because I was focused way too much on me and not thinking of how it made my spouse feel. When I&#039;m honest with myself, I know the difference. Good luck and much warmth to the two of you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes marriage work for me is that it is living with my best friend. As long as we share things with each other and care about each other&#039;s feelings it goes really well. If you feel you are neglecting those areas, then just focus a little more on them. If you feel your spouse is neglecting those areas, give them the benefit of the doubt while heaping love on them and gentle reminders of what would make you feel included and cared for. The times I&#039;ve gotten myself into a bad marriage moment have been because I was focused way too much on me and not thinking of how it made my spouse feel. When I&#039;m honest with myself, I know the difference. Good luck and much warmth to the two of you!</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-81396</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 04:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-81396</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a shame that many of the responses to your article are accusations covering self-justification. The nature of the accusations being that your comments are personal and have no empirical evidence to back them up. The real truth is that, after decades of study, the objective evidence for what you say is now out there and amassing fast.

So, what would I know? My testimony is automatically invalidated because I am a man. An interesting world we have created for ourselves over the last 40-odd years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s a shame that many of the responses to your article are accusations covering self-justification. The nature of the accusations being that your comments are personal and have no empirical evidence to back them up. The real truth is that, after decades of study, the objective evidence for what you say is now out there and amassing fast.</p>
<p>So, what would I know? My testimony is automatically invalidated because I am a man. An interesting world we have created for ourselves over the last 40-odd years.</p>
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		<title>By: Generation Y Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Generation Y: Our American Dream</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-80446</link>
		<dc:creator>Generation Y Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Generation Y: Our American Dream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-80446</guid>
		<description>[...] Baby boomers are also baffled by women who grow large careers in their 20s and then dump them in order to spend time with kids. Newsflash: Generation X values their family more than their money. Our American Dream is not about buying a big house, our dream is about keeping a family together. You can tell a lot about values by the terms that are coined. When baby boomers were raising kids they invented the term latchkey kid and yuppie; we invented the terms shared care and stay-at-home-dad. The divorce rate for baby boomers was higher than any other generation. We can afford to have less money because most of us don&#8217;t need to fund two separate households. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Baby boomers are also baffled by women who grow large careers in their 20s and then dump them in order to spend time with kids. Newsflash: Generation X values their family more than their money. Our American Dream is not about buying a big house, our dream is about keeping a family together. You can tell a lot about values by the terms that are coined. When baby boomers were raising kids they invented the term latchkey kid and yuppie; we invented the terms shared care and stay-at-home-dad. The divorce rate for baby boomers was higher than any other generation. We can afford to have less money because most of us don&#039;t need to fund two separate households. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Casey Dawes</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-75509</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey Dawes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 16:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-75509</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s start with -- I&#039;m a boomer.  I&#039;ve been married four times and divorced three (I had a penchant for marrying alcoholics before I figured out that I didn&#039;t have to :-))

The comment that I found most interesting was the last paragraph:  &quot;So this is my call for a shift in discussion about women and work. Both men and women need to figure out how talk about how to make better marriages. We need to take all our energy we spend talking about the risks of stay-at-home parenting, and the risks of dual-career families, and put that thinking power toward what makes a marriage strong.&quot;

That is a brilliant suggestion.

We spend so much time in the public sphere debating these questions that we forget that marriage is between two people who need to spend time and energy together to work things out.  There&#039;s so much pressure for them to be and do outside the home that only as a combined front can they resist the pressure to work too long and buy too much.  

I also like the perspective of the positive in the suggestion.  Let&#039;s find out what makes marriages work instead of focusing on what doesn&#039;t make them work.  I don&#039;t think the answer is one-size-fits-all, but the answer does start with the two people involved finding out who they are individually, acknowledging that, and then finding out who they are in relationship to each other and continue that discovery during the whole of their marriage.

I salute the next generations -- I find you all so very awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#039;s start with &#8212; I&#039;m a boomer.  I&#039;ve been married four times and divorced three (I had a penchant for marrying alcoholics before I figured out that I didn&#039;t have to :-))</p>
<p>The comment that I found most interesting was the last paragraph:  &#034;So this is my call for a shift in discussion about women and work. Both men and women need to figure out how talk about how to make better marriages. We need to take all our energy we spend talking about the risks of stay-at-home parenting, and the risks of dual-career families, and put that thinking power toward what makes a marriage strong.&#034;</p>
<p>That is a brilliant suggestion.</p>
<p>We spend so much time in the public sphere debating these questions that we forget that marriage is between two people who need to spend time and energy together to work things out.  There&#039;s so much pressure for them to be and do outside the home that only as a combined front can they resist the pressure to work too long and buy too much.  </p>
<p>I also like the perspective of the positive in the suggestion.  Let&#039;s find out what makes marriages work instead of focusing on what doesn&#039;t make them work.  I don&#039;t think the answer is one-size-fits-all, but the answer does start with the two people involved finding out who they are individually, acknowledging that, and then finding out who they are in relationship to each other and continue that discovery during the whole of their marriage.</p>
<p>I salute the next generations &#8212; I find you all so very awesome!</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Zajac</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-74244</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Zajac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 01:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-74244</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been said here before but I&#039;ll say it again: Your best post yet, Penelope. Thank you for your honesty about this subject that so many of us relate to yet rarely discuss. 
Life should not be this hard on the working woman and the working woman&#039;s family. We should not be so hard on oursevles, either. 
Gotta go; need to write my column.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s been said here before but I&#039;ll say it again: Your best post yet, Penelope. Thank you for your honesty about this subject that so many of us relate to yet rarely discuss.<br />
Life should not be this hard on the working woman and the working woman&#039;s family. We should not be so hard on oursevles, either.<br />
Gotta go; need to write my column.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/comment-page-1/#comment-72595</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 21:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/14/new-agenda-for-workplace-activism-keep-marriages-together/#comment-72595</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t mean this unkindly, but I think marriage, once a simple property arrangement, then the sign of a prosperous middle class, and now...what? Well, I think it&#039;s broken, and may not be fixable.  I think marriages in this underinsured overpressured outsourced country are asked to do too many things these days, and that&#039;s why they don&#039;t stand up under pressure--ironically, as we are ever more marketed to to save our marriages, have bigger weddings, etc. What Penelope says makes sense.  I&#039;m just not holding my breath.

And yes, I am married and hope to stay so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t mean this unkindly, but I think marriage, once a simple property arrangement, then the sign of a prosperous middle class, and now&#8230;what? Well, I think it&#039;s broken, and may not be fixable.  I think marriages in this underinsured overpressured outsourced country are asked to do too many things these days, and that&#039;s why they don&#039;t stand up under pressure&#8211;ironically, as we are ever more marketed to to save our marriages, have bigger weddings, etc. What Penelope says makes sense.  I&#039;m just not holding my breath.</p>
<p>And yes, I am married and hope to stay so.</p>
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