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	<title>Comments on: Forget about the wage gap. What about the Web 2.0 gap?</title>
	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Top Entrepreneurs Are Not Young Women &#124; Twenty Set</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-138995</link>
		<dc:creator>Top Entrepreneurs Are Not Young Women &#124; Twenty Set</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-138995</guid>
		<description>[...] to know about starting a business in your twenties from men.  And Penelope Trunk, who wrote the closest piece of proof I have that this phenomenon is not just in my life but is actually happening worldwide.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to know about starting a business in your twenties from men.  And Penelope Trunk, who wrote the closest piece of proof I have that this phenomenon is not just in my life but is actually happening worldwide.  [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-112074</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-112074</guid>
		<description>Hi, &lt;a href="http://john.drosgwcisha.com\" rel="nofollow"&gt;there&lt;/a&gt;!..33e002783a85be5385ee2dbf69451251</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, <a href="http://john.drosgwcisha.com\" rel="nofollow">there</a>!..33e002783a85be5385ee2dbf69451251</p>
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		<title>By: sb</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-107020</link>
		<dc:creator>sb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-107020</guid>
		<description>Hi Penelope.. its been great reading all your posts. They're enlightening as well as entertaining. Just a small suggestion. Although your blog is very easy to read and navigate,your site may look better if the sentences are justified. 
Keep up the good work!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Penelope.. its been great reading all your posts. They&#8217;re enlightening as well as entertaining. Just a small suggestion. Although your blog is very easy to read and navigate,your site may look better if the sentences are justified.<br />
Keep up the good work!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-68220</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 21:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-68220</guid>
		<description>The wage gap doesn't matter? Women make less because they become "distracted" by their children?

I can't speak for women at large, but if I know my mother, I know that she for one would have to restrain herself from busting you in the face if you brought this apologism into her house. I think a previous commenter, Caitlin, summarizes your fallacy best:

"I don’t think it’s true to say that the pay gap doesn’t matter unless there is a happiness gap. It’s also about justice."

Justice. A concept I learned from my mother (I wonder how much it cost -- through "distraction" -- to teach me that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wage gap doesn&#8217;t matter? Women make less because they become &#8220;distracted&#8221; by their children?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t speak for women at large, but if I know my mother, I know that she for one would have to restrain herself from busting you in the face if you brought this apologism into her house. I think a previous commenter, Caitlin, summarizes your fallacy best:</p>
<p>&#8220;I don’t think it’s true to say that the pay gap doesn’t matter unless there is a happiness gap. It’s also about justice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Justice. A concept I learned from my mother (I wonder how much it cost &#8212; through &#8220;distraction&#8221; &#8212; to teach me that).</p>
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		<title>By: boooo, it cut me off</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66562</link>
		<dc:creator>boooo, it cut me off</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 03:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66562</guid>
		<description>I recognize that this is an isolated incident, but that's a pretty strong reactionary sentiment.  It's also not that much stronger than the casual banter that plays out in the server-wide discussions every night.  Admissions of femininity result in either insults or come-ons.  I'm sure there are plenty of women playing, but I have my doubts on how many of us would feel safe to display it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recognize that this is an isolated incident, but that&#8217;s a pretty strong reactionary sentiment.  It&#8217;s also not that much stronger than the casual banter that plays out in the server-wide discussions every night.  Admissions of femininity result in either insults or come-ons.  I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of women playing, but I have my doubts on how many of us would feel safe to display it.</p>
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		<title>By: Better Person Who Has Now Read the Other Comments Yet</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66561</link>
		<dc:creator>Better Person Who Has Now Read the Other Comments Yet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 03:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66561</guid>
		<description>Whether or not more women are playing video games, the public conception is that it's still a male-dominated field.  I play World of Warcraft (WoW); my guild is about 30% female but most of us are girlfriends/wives.  Our guildmates are well up-to-date on who's what gender but still make public, mysogynistic complaints about non-guildies such as "I hope his penis falls off--or maybe it already did."  The default assumption about anonymous players is that they are male (a second interesting assumption is that they are white).

Most video game advertisements are still aimed at young men.  Advertisements featuring women are generally disparaged as inaccurate (which I'm willing to concede as I personally don't know any stick-thin and gorgeous models that enjoy zoning out to Mario Cart.)  Online play among women might be picking up, but I'd be curious to see numbers on console games.  The climate there is generally quite anti-female participation.

One last story; this is a good one.  A friend of mine in her mid-30s was telling about how she was helping a lower level character on WoW. It quickly became evident that this was a young teenage male.  My friend was amused by this and told him that she was old enough to be his mother.  The kid was quiet for a few minutes and then exploded with a tirade about how she shouldn't be wasting all her time on video games and was failing her family.  Upon informing the kid that she doesn't have children, he responded that she needs to hurry up and find a man. &#62;.&lt;I&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether or not more women are playing video games, the public conception is that it&#8217;s still a male-dominated field.  I play World of Warcraft (WoW); my guild is about 30% female but most of us are girlfriends/wives.  Our guildmates are well up-to-date on who&#8217;s what gender but still make public, mysogynistic complaints about non-guildies such as &#8220;I hope his penis falls off&#8211;or maybe it already did.&#8221;  The default assumption about anonymous players is that they are male (a second interesting assumption is that they are white).</p>
<p>Most video game advertisements are still aimed at young men.  Advertisements featuring women are generally disparaged as inaccurate (which I&#8217;m willing to concede as I personally don&#8217;t know any stick-thin and gorgeous models that enjoy zoning out to Mario Cart.)  Online play among women might be picking up, but I&#8217;d be curious to see numbers on console games.  The climate there is generally quite anti-female participation.</p>
<p>One last story; this is a good one.  A friend of mine in her mid-30s was telling about how she was helping a lower level character on WoW. It quickly became evident that this was a young teenage male.  My friend was amused by this and told him that she was old enough to be his mother.  The kid was quiet for a few minutes and then exploded with a tirade about how she shouldn&#8217;t be wasting all her time on video games and was failing her family.  Upon informing the kid that she doesn&#8217;t have children, he responded that she needs to hurry up and find a man. &gt;.<i></i></p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66537</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 00:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66537</guid>
		<description>I wonder when will the battle between the sexes end. There seems to be too much invovled that one group will not submit to the other. We should stop comparing and live a normal life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder when will the battle between the sexes end. There seems to be too much invovled that one group will not submit to the other. We should stop comparing and live a normal life.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad Person Who Hasn't Read the Other Comments Yet</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66464</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad Person Who Hasn't Read the Other Comments Yet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 18:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66464</guid>
		<description>http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3107139&#038;page=1

Have you seen this about women bloggers and anonymous threats? Personal safety is huge limiting factor for women, whether its walking down dark streets or developing a internet persona. Even legitmate threats aside, people post anonymous responses to women that they wouldn't say to a man in a million years.

&lt;strong&gt;* * * * *  *&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Yes, this is a big issue now. Kathy Sierra was receiving extraordinarily bad threats.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;em&gt; (For a more typical example of mysogenist comments online, see the comments my column receives at Yahoo.)However most women, bloggers or not, have been dealing with gender-based threats their whole life. When a grown man whistles at an eleven-year-old girl, it is threatening, and it goes on from there, to when men are sexually harassing women at work. Women have not let this hold them back in education and business, so I am sure women will figure out how to deal with in onlne, as well.

--Penelope

&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3107139&#038;page=1" rel="nofollow">http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3107139&#038;page=1</a></p>
<p>Have you seen this about women bloggers and anonymous threats? Personal safety is huge limiting factor for women, whether its walking down dark streets or developing a internet persona. Even legitmate threats aside, people post anonymous responses to women that they wouldn&#8217;t say to a man in a million years.</p>
<p><strong>* * * * *  *</strong></p>
<p><em>Yes, this is a big issue now. Kathy Sierra was receiving extraordinarily bad threats.</em><em> (For a more typical example of mysogenist comments online, see the comments my column receives at Yahoo.)However most women, bloggers or not, have been dealing with gender-based threats their whole life. When a grown man whistles at an eleven-year-old girl, it is threatening, and it goes on from there, to when men are sexually harassing women at work. Women have not let this hold them back in education and business, so I am sure women will figure out how to deal with in onlne, as well.</p>
<p>&#8211;Penelope</p>
<p></em></p>
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		<title>By: CR</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66449</link>
		<dc:creator>CR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 17:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66449</guid>
		<description>Most of the comments have been accurate, in my opinion, and I am a web 1.0 survivor about to head back into the fray that is web 2.0. The difference this time (I hope) is that I have chosen the company instead of the company choosing me (or feeling as though I had no choice as company #2 or 3 bit the dust).

It's not so much a gender difference as it is I believe an age difference. I know it's not web 1.0 or 2.0, but Microsoft still holds 'morale events' that involve some sci-fi movie and then eating steak, even though what would have raised my morale was an afternoon off and a new pair of shoes. You knew the company's culture has not caught up with its employees when a departmental event goes for barbeque - but half of its team are from the Indian Subcontinent and are strict vegetarian. 

How many women leave because the culture rewards the hero and they have to leave in time to pick up the kid from daycare? That doesn't even go into the problem that every daycare, quality or not, within any kind of reasonable range of MSFT has a waiting list six months long. This makes fathers leave too, but less so - and when they have to leave early when the kid is sick, they're considered to be exemplary fathers. When women do it, the whispering is that they're letting the teeam down.

I guess this rambling is to try to point out that the cutting edge tech culture is still perceived to be populated by single guys in their early 20s, because the ones who have families find somewhere else to work. and women eventually leave entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the comments have been accurate, in my opinion, and I am a web 1.0 survivor about to head back into the fray that is web 2.0. The difference this time (I hope) is that I have chosen the company instead of the company choosing me (or feeling as though I had no choice as company #2 or 3 bit the dust).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not so much a gender difference as it is I believe an age difference. I know it&#8217;s not web 1.0 or 2.0, but Microsoft still holds &#8216;morale events&#8217; that involve some sci-fi movie and then eating steak, even though what would have raised my morale was an afternoon off and a new pair of shoes. You knew the company&#8217;s culture has not caught up with its employees when a departmental event goes for barbeque - but half of its team are from the Indian Subcontinent and are strict vegetarian. </p>
<p>How many women leave because the culture rewards the hero and they have to leave in time to pick up the kid from daycare? That doesn&#8217;t even go into the problem that every daycare, quality or not, within any kind of reasonable range of MSFT has a waiting list six months long. This makes fathers leave too, but less so - and when they have to leave early when the kid is sick, they&#8217;re considered to be exemplary fathers. When women do it, the whispering is that they&#8217;re letting the teeam down.</p>
<p>I guess this rambling is to try to point out that the cutting edge tech culture is still perceived to be populated by single guys in their early 20s, because the ones who have families find somewhere else to work. and women eventually leave entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Rahul</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66403</link>
		<dc:creator>Rahul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 13:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/01/forget-about-the-wage-gap-what-about-the-web-20-gap/#comment-66403</guid>
		<description>I'm late commening here, but I'd just like to add that I don't recall a Penelope Trunk or Kathy Sierra (to name two) during the Web "1.0" age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m late commening here, but I&#8217;d just like to add that I don&#8217;t recall a Penelope Trunk or Kathy Sierra (to name two) during the Web &#8220;1.0&#8243; age.</p>
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