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	<title>Comments on: I can&#039;t pronounce my son&#039;s last name</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
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		<title>By: Farheen</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222997</link>
		<dc:creator>Farheen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-222997</guid>
		<description>great analysis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great analysis</p>
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		<title>By: VICTOR MAIQUEZ</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-181385</link>
		<dc:creator>VICTOR MAIQUEZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-181385</guid>
		<description>
people in SPAIN  ARE CAUCASIANS AND our LAST NAMES ARE RODRIGUEZ, MAIQUEZ, LOPEZ AND GOMEZ . 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>people in SPAIN  ARE CAUCASIANS AND our LAST NAMES ARE RODRIGUEZ, MAIQUEZ, LOPEZ AND GOMEZ .</p>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t be an annoying white person at work &#187; Brazen Careerist</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-28630</link>
		<dc:creator>Don&#8217;t be an annoying white person at work &#187; Brazen Careerist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-28630</guid>
		<description>[...] i have written before about how subtle discrimination is. It&#8217;s not okay to be racist in an overt way. There is wide cultural agreement on this. Which means that the racism goes to places that are hard to pinpoint. For example, I reported that when we read resumes, we judge people who might be African American more harshly. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] i have written before about how subtle discrimination is. It&#039;s not okay to be racist in an overt way. There is wide cultural agreement on this. Which means that the racism goes to places that are hard to pinpoint. For example, I reported that when we read resumes, we judge people who might be African American more harshly. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Recruiting Bloggers.com</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-19657</link>
		<dc:creator>Recruiting Bloggers.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 00:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-19657</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Does Your Name Make A Difference?&lt;/strong&gt;

The Brazen Careerist says your name makes a difference. The shallow person might assume that these hilarious clips from CNN prove that she&#039;s right. I say, hardly. The guy is, after all, running for president. My name, Animal, is one hundred per cent E...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Does Your Name Make A Difference?</strong></p>
<p>The Brazen Careerist says your name makes a difference. The shallow person might assume that these hilarious clips from CNN prove that she&#039;s right. I say, hardly. The guy is, after all, running for president. My name, Animal, is one hundred per cent E&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lena West</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-18535</link>
		<dc:creator>Lena West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-18535</guid>
		<description>Penelope:

Thanks for the response.

Many people are suprised that I prefer the term &quot;person of color&quot; because of its seeming similarity to the old term &quot;colored&quot;.  While I can&#039;t speak for all people of color, I can say that non-white is fine with most people I know, as well. 

I am also Latina. You&#039;ll encounter many people who would rather you refer to them as Hispanics. 

My point was - almost anything (within reason) is better than minority. That is a sinister word that carries undercurrent connotations.

If you aren&#039;t sure which term to use you can 1) ask friends or 2) use whatever term you think is best - someone will let you know if it&#039;s passe.

I agree that there has to be a dialogue about race. So, while you might not get fabulous reactions when you write about race on the blog, the fact is at least you have the courage to engage in earnest dialogue - which, I can tell you is few and far between. People of all shades like to dance around the topic of race but when it gets to the meat of the issue, most turn tail and run.

To the extent that you are comfortable with it, keep talking about it and keep being willing to &quot;go there&quot; - again to the degree that it resonates with you.

Here is an interesting story on NPR about the issue: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5539692 Jensen, like you, &quot;goes there&quot;, in a way that I find revealing, honest and raw.  I can *always* appreciate revealing, honest and raw.

-Lena</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope:</p>
<p>Thanks for the response.</p>
<p>Many people are suprised that I prefer the term &#034;person of color&#034; because of its seeming similarity to the old term &#034;colored&#034;.  While I can&#039;t speak for all people of color, I can say that non-white is fine with most people I know, as well. </p>
<p>I am also Latina. You&#039;ll encounter many people who would rather you refer to them as Hispanics. </p>
<p>My point was &#8211; almost anything (within reason) is better than minority. That is a sinister word that carries undercurrent connotations.</p>
<p>If you aren&#039;t sure which term to use you can 1) ask friends or 2) use whatever term you think is best &#8211; someone will let you know if it&#039;s passe.</p>
<p>I agree that there has to be a dialogue about race. So, while you might not get fabulous reactions when you write about race on the blog, the fact is at least you have the courage to engage in earnest dialogue &#8211; which, I can tell you is few and far between. People of all shades like to dance around the topic of race but when it gets to the meat of the issue, most turn tail and run.</p>
<p>To the extent that you are comfortable with it, keep talking about it and keep being willing to &#034;go there&#034; &#8211; again to the degree that it resonates with you.</p>
<p>Here is an interesting story on NPR about the issue: <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5539692" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5539692</a> Jensen, like you, &#034;goes there&#034;, in a way that I find revealing, honest and raw.  I can *always* appreciate revealing, honest and raw.</p>
<p>-Lena</p>
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		<title>By: Lena West</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-18503</link>
		<dc:creator>Lena West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-18503</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s amazing that people are so shocked to hear that racism still exists. The ones who are shocked probably don&#039;t have as many &quot;Black friends&quot; as they claim - for surely, you would ask a TRUE friend about their experiences in today&#039;s world, no? I find it hard to believe it never gets talked about...indeed if there is a friendship in a true sense of the word.

I believe that if anyone sees/refers to ANY other person - spouse or not - as a &quot;minority&quot;, it&#039;s a disgrace.

People should really look up the word &quot;minority&quot; to see its other meanings and racially hostile connotations.

As a person of color, being called or referred to as a minority, insults me and I usually tend to think the person using the terminology is not well-informed.

And for those that still think the word &quot;minority&quot; refers to census metrics, do you know what the U.S. government calls States in which people of color comprise the majority of the population? Majority-minority states.

So, if people of color were minorities supposedly because, at one point, we made up the minority of the population, when we make up the MAJORITY of the population, why are people of color still referred to as minorities? Care to guess? Think about it. It&#039;s the subliminal stuff that gets ya.

Look beyond *your* experience,

Lena
&lt;strong&gt;* * * * * * *&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;I&gt;Hi, Lena.

Thank you for your taking the time to post this. I am always very happy to have opinionated comments on the blog. I actually have very limited experience with what you&#039;re talking about, so I&#039;m happy to learn from you.

I wonder, though, what is the language you would want people to use, instead of minority?

When I was writing a piece about race for the LA Weekly, I wrote a lot about Latinos, and they are no longer a minoirty group in LA, so the LA Weekly instructed me to use the term &quot;non-White&quot;. I have a feeling this would not be acceptable to you. But I tell you to let you know that I really have no idea what language to use instead.

I am surprised you would use the term &quot;person of color.&quot; I don&#039;t understand why that&#039;s better.

I can&#039;t help but wonder which is more important -- to make sure people use conscious language when talking about race, or to make sure that people talk without fear of being jumped on. Or maybe something in between. To be honest, I get very nervous writing on this blog about race because I fear that I am not up to snuff on all deconstructions of racist language. But if I don&#039;t write about race on the blog, that seems bad, too.  

Penelope &lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#039;s amazing that people are so shocked to hear that racism still exists. The ones who are shocked probably don&#039;t have as many &#034;Black friends&#034; as they claim &#8211; for surely, you would ask a TRUE friend about their experiences in today&#039;s world, no? I find it hard to believe it never gets talked about&#8230;indeed if there is a friendship in a true sense of the word.</p>
<p>I believe that if anyone sees/refers to ANY other person &#8211; spouse or not &#8211; as a &#034;minority&#034;, it&#039;s a disgrace.</p>
<p>People should really look up the word &#034;minority&#034; to see its other meanings and racially hostile connotations.</p>
<p>As a person of color, being called or referred to as a minority, insults me and I usually tend to think the person using the terminology is not well-informed.</p>
<p>And for those that still think the word &#034;minority&#034; refers to census metrics, do you know what the U.S. government calls States in which people of color comprise the majority of the population? Majority-minority states.</p>
<p>So, if people of color were minorities supposedly because, at one point, we made up the minority of the population, when we make up the MAJORITY of the population, why are people of color still referred to as minorities? Care to guess? Think about it. It&#039;s the subliminal stuff that gets ya.</p>
<p>Look beyond *your* experience,</p>
<p>Lena<br />
<strong>* * * * * * *</strong></p>
<p><i>Hi, Lena.</p>
<p>Thank you for your taking the time to post this. I am always very happy to have opinionated comments on the blog. I actually have very limited experience with what you&#039;re talking about, so I&#039;m happy to learn from you.</p>
<p>I wonder, though, what is the language you would want people to use, instead of minority?</p>
<p>When I was writing a piece about race for the LA Weekly, I wrote a lot about Latinos, and they are no longer a minoirty group in LA, so the LA Weekly instructed me to use the term &#034;non-White&#034;. I have a feeling this would not be acceptable to you. But I tell you to let you know that I really have no idea what language to use instead.</p>
<p>I am surprised you would use the term &#034;person of color.&#034; I don&#039;t understand why that&#039;s better.</p>
<p>I can&#039;t help but wonder which is more important &#8212; to make sure people use conscious language when talking about race, or to make sure that people talk without fear of being jumped on. Or maybe something in between. To be honest, I get very nervous writing on this blog about race because I fear that I am not up to snuff on all deconstructions of racist language. But if I don&#039;t write about race on the blog, that seems bad, too.  </p>
<p>Penelope </i></p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-18360</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-18360</guid>
		<description>Penelope,
I will add my experience to the mix also.  A former co-worker of mine is from Vietnam and he used to own a painting company.  He advertised in the phone book as &quot;T****&#039;s painting&quot; and he received no calls.  He decided to change the name of his company to &quot;Steve&#039;s painting&quot; and the calls came pouring in.  There never was a Steve associated with the company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope,<br />
I will add my experience to the mix also.  A former co-worker of mine is from Vietnam and he used to own a painting company.  He advertised in the phone book as &#034;T****&#039;s painting&#034; and he received no calls.  He decided to change the name of his company to &#034;Steve&#039;s painting&#034; and the calls came pouring in.  There never was a Steve associated with the company.</p>
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		<title>By: jennifer winter</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-18006</link>
		<dc:creator>jennifer winter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-18006</guid>
		<description>These are excellent points.  It makes me wonder as we have friends who are thinking of naming their son Dante (as his first name)  We aren&#039;t sure that we like it and not sure what to tell them when they ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are excellent points.  It makes me wonder as we have friends who are thinking of naming their son Dante (as his first name)  We aren&#039;t sure that we like it and not sure what to tell them when they ask.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan Tweney</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17878</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan Tweney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-17878</guid>
		<description>Penelope, what a radical idea -- name-blind resumes! I think it would make an enormous difference in most companies&#039; hiring practices.

This reminds me of a trend I know about through my friends who are musicians. In classical music, orchestras used to be dominated by men -- like, 90% men and 10% or less women. Yet getting a job with an orchestra is a matter of pure talent, since nothing matters more than the audition, right? It must have been that women just weren&#039;t talented enough to pass auditions, people used to think. Then orchestras started conducting auditions with the player behind a screen, so the director (and whoever else makes hiring decisions) could hear them play but not see the person playing. Within a few years, orchestras had quickly become closer to 50-50 M/F. Amazing what a little difference like that makes, even when people swear up and down (and even believe ourselves) that we are color- and race-blind.

&lt;strong&gt;* * * * *&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;I&gt;Ooooh, I loved this one, Dylan. Thanks. I dug up the Princeton University report on having blind orchestra auditions. Here it is for anyone who is interested:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml&lt;/a&gt;

-Penelope&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope, what a radical idea &#8212; name-blind resumes! I think it would make an enormous difference in most companies&#039; hiring practices.</p>
<p>This reminds me of a trend I know about through my friends who are musicians. In classical music, orchestras used to be dominated by men &#8212; like, 90% men and 10% or less women. Yet getting a job with an orchestra is a matter of pure talent, since nothing matters more than the audition, right? It must have been that women just weren&#039;t talented enough to pass auditions, people used to think. Then orchestras started conducting auditions with the player behind a screen, so the director (and whoever else makes hiring decisions) could hear them play but not see the person playing. Within a few years, orchestras had quickly become closer to 50-50 M/F. Amazing what a little difference like that makes, even when people swear up and down (and even believe ourselves) that we are color- and race-blind.</p>
<p><strong>* * * * *</strong></p>
<p><i>Ooooh, I loved this one, Dylan. Thanks. I dug up the Princeton University report on having blind orchestra auditions. Here it is for anyone who is interested:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml</a></p>
<p>-Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: Dale Harris</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17865</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/01/15/i-cant-pronounce-my-sons-last-name-2/#comment-17865</guid>
		<description>Penny,
I believe I understand what your husband is saying. And it is basically, &quot;Who has the energy to fight all of the time? We just need to let the kids toughen up; learn to roll with the punches, and be able to handle the situations when they arise.&quot; The mindset of someone who has lived with a situation all his life and has struggled/thrived in spite of it.
Dale Harris is a very ordinary name. But I have found in recent interviews that alot of the time, when a large black man walks into the interview room, the eyes of the interviewer become downcast (or glazed over) for a fleeting moment, and although there is extremely polite conversation, and little in the way of direct challenges to my ability to accomplish the tasks at hand, the die is cast so to speak.
As an old hand at the game, I find that when I can make the interviewer comfortable with me on a human level, I have a better success rate at receiving second meetings. But all in all, life is what it is and we just need to deal with it or live in a constant state of anger.
Not a very novel concept since you women have been doing it for years.

&lt;strong&gt;* * * * * *&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;I&gt;Dale, This is such a revealing, profound, and useful comment. Thank you for showing us this issue up close.

Penelope&lt;/I&gt;

 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penny,<br />
I believe I understand what your husband is saying. And it is basically, &#034;Who has the energy to fight all of the time? We just need to let the kids toughen up; learn to roll with the punches, and be able to handle the situations when they arise.&#034; The mindset of someone who has lived with a situation all his life and has struggled/thrived in spite of it.<br />
Dale Harris is a very ordinary name. But I have found in recent interviews that alot of the time, when a large black man walks into the interview room, the eyes of the interviewer become downcast (or glazed over) for a fleeting moment, and although there is extremely polite conversation, and little in the way of direct challenges to my ability to accomplish the tasks at hand, the die is cast so to speak.<br />
As an old hand at the game, I find that when I can make the interviewer comfortable with me on a human level, I have a better success rate at receiving second meetings. But all in all, life is what it is and we just need to deal with it or live in a constant state of anger.<br />
Not a very novel concept since you women have been doing it for years.</p>
<p><strong>* * * * * *</strong></p>
<p><i>Dale, This is such a revealing, profound, and useful comment. Thank you for showing us this issue up close.</p>
<p>Penelope</i></p>
<p> </p>
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