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	<title>Comments on: Get married first, then focus on career</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:47:54 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Life Planning &#171; Today I read&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-211850</link>
		<dc:creator>Life Planning &#171; Today I read&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-211850</guid>
		<description>[...] a woman gets, or tries to get, pregnant in her late 20s or early 30s. Then she was talking about the effect of birth order on your kids (of which, being the oldest of six, I am a keen [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a woman gets, or tries to get, pregnant in her late 20s or early 30s. Then she was talking about the effect of birth order on your kids (of which, being the oldest of six, I am a keen [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pro-Choice: variations on a theme &#171; How Not to be Afraid of Spiders</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-210715</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro-Choice: variations on a theme &#171; How Not to be Afraid of Spiders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-210715</guid>
		<description>[...] articles are written about it, ranging from go-getter encouraging to pessimistic and downright demeaning. And, of course, we talk about it with each [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] articles are written about it, ranging from go-getter encouraging to pessimistic and downright demeaning. And, of course, we talk about it with each [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fengshui</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-208911</link>
		<dc:creator>fengshui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-208911</guid>
		<description>&quot;As an unmarried, childless woman in my early 30&#039;s, this is something I worry about rather often. Unfortunately I can&#039;t turn back the clock, so I&#039;m already technically out of time, by these standards.&quot;

You are NOT out of time! There are many men out there who seek intelligent, career driven, mature women in their 30&#039;s!  Don&#039;t think this way!  Once you hit 40+, then start to worry....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;As an unmarried, childless woman in my early 30&#039;s, this is something I worry about rather often. Unfortunately I can&#039;t turn back the clock, so I&#039;m already technically out of time, by these standards.&#034;</p>
<p>You are NOT out of time! There are many men out there who seek intelligent, career driven, mature women in their 30&#039;s!  Don&#039;t think this way!  Once you hit 40+, then start to worry&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: fengshui</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-208906</link>
		<dc:creator>fengshui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-208906</guid>
		<description>&quot;because they would be 55 or more by the time the kids were grown. &quot;

And?!?  I&#039;m 33, and I don&#039;t have children yet.  I may be a rare person, but I FEEL young, and I don&#039;t care if I don&#039;t have a child until I&#039;m 36.  So what if I&#039;ll be 54 when they graduate from HS.  To me, 54 is still young!  My dad is 56 and rides a Harley, still goes out socially a lot.  He looks young, he feels young.  I think that a lot of it is attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;because they would be 55 or more by the time the kids were grown. &#034;</p>
<p>And?!?  I&#039;m 33, and I don&#039;t have children yet.  I may be a rare person, but I FEEL young, and I don&#039;t care if I don&#039;t have a child until I&#039;m 36.  So what if I&#039;ll be 54 when they graduate from HS.  To me, 54 is still young!  My dad is 56 and rides a Harley, still goes out socially a lot.  He looks young, he feels young.  I think that a lot of it is attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hansen</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-208261</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-208261</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think anyone should have to fit into a  &quot;place in society&quot; but maybe they do it differently in Russia.

I think many men who go along with having kids do it t o get along with their wives that they usually love.  And that&#039;s a poor reason - if you don&#039;t want kids the relationship will suffer and may fail - leaving both partners amd the kids on the short end of the stick.  And often if there is one - there are 3, 4 or more.

I do imagine there as some guys who really do want kids and might be good fathers but I don&#039;t think they are that common or easy to find.   

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.

We had some pressure from my wife&#039;s father but  when she told him we just didn&#039;t want kids he backed off.

John Hansen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t think anyone should have to fit into a  &#034;place in society&#034; but maybe they do it differently in Russia.</p>
<p>I think many men who go along with having kids do it t o get along with their wives that they usually love.  And that&#039;s a poor reason &#8211; if you don&#039;t want kids the relationship will suffer and may fail &#8211; leaving both partners amd the kids on the short end of the stick.  And often if there is one &#8211; there are 3, 4 or more.</p>
<p>I do imagine there as some guys who really do want kids and might be good fathers but I don&#039;t think they are that common or easy to find.   </p>
<p>I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.</p>
<p>We had some pressure from my wife&#039;s father but  when she told him we just didn&#039;t want kids he backed off.</p>
<p>John Hansen</p>
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		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-208110</link>
		<dc:creator>jae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-208110</guid>
		<description>There is a thing about such an advice: it might be helpful only to those, who actually *want* to have kids and are concisiously delaying having them because of their career.
I`m just not so sure that`s the reason most women who delay having kids do that.

I`m 23.I have a job I kinda like, and a profession I love, the one I want to have a career in. I also have no desire to get married and have kids in at least next 5 to 8 years. Are these two facts about me related in any way? No.

I dont want to get married and have kids anytime soon because I`m not sure I want to do any of that at all, pure and simple. In fact, me loving my professon is the only thing about myself I`m totally absolutely sure about.

Understanding myself is much more of a high priority for me than having kids, finding a husband or even a boyfriend. And if I will find, that I actually don`t want any of it - so be it. Being able to live with myself for years and years to come is my highest priority.

What I wanted to say: I might be the only one like that, but I think I`m not. And for many women (and men!) &quot;I can`t do it right now because of...&quot; is just an another, more socially acceptable way of saying &quot;I don`t want it, at least not right now&quot;. To them such an advice basically reads like^ &quot;Do it now, whether you want it or not!&quot; And that doesn`t seem like a nice reason to have kids, especially if such a person will be unlucky enough to realize, they don`t actually want kids, after having them.

And then there are those, who would like to live by that lovely plan, but actually can`t. Because of money (not &quot;I can`t afford those Manolos!&quot;, but &quot;I can`t afford my own place to live!&quot;), because of a spouse leaving them or not wanting to have kids, because of being sick... To them all this is just one more &quot;SUCKS TO BE YOU!!!&quot;

Maybe I`m just angry. You see. I was born im Moscow, Russia. I grew up and got my education there. I`m living there, and I don`t plan to leave anytime soon (sorry for the mistakes btw, my English isn`t exactly perfect). Attitudes towards a woman`s place in society are different here. We`re progressing, but really, really slowly. I like to read foreingh blogs because it`s nice to imagine there are better places out there. And here I read same old stuff about basically being a failure if I don`t find a man before I`m 30.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a thing about such an advice: it might be helpful only to those, who actually *want* to have kids and are concisiously delaying having them because of their career.<br />
I`m just not so sure that`s the reason most women who delay having kids do that.</p>
<p>I`m 23.I have a job I kinda like, and a profession I love, the one I want to have a career in. I also have no desire to get married and have kids in at least next 5 to 8 years. Are these two facts about me related in any way? No.</p>
<p>I dont want to get married and have kids anytime soon because I`m not sure I want to do any of that at all, pure and simple. In fact, me loving my professon is the only thing about myself I`m totally absolutely sure about.</p>
<p>Understanding myself is much more of a high priority for me than having kids, finding a husband or even a boyfriend. And if I will find, that I actually don`t want any of it &#8211; so be it. Being able to live with myself for years and years to come is my highest priority.</p>
<p>What I wanted to say: I might be the only one like that, but I think I`m not. And for many women (and men!) &#034;I can`t do it right now because of&#8230;&#034; is just an another, more socially acceptable way of saying &#034;I don`t want it, at least not right now&#034;. To them such an advice basically reads like^ &#034;Do it now, whether you want it or not!&#034; And that doesn`t seem like a nice reason to have kids, especially if such a person will be unlucky enough to realize, they don`t actually want kids, after having them.</p>
<p>And then there are those, who would like to live by that lovely plan, but actually can`t. Because of money (not &#034;I can`t afford those Manolos!&#034;, but &#034;I can`t afford my own place to live!&#034;), because of a spouse leaving them or not wanting to have kids, because of being sick&#8230; To them all this is just one more &#034;SUCKS TO BE YOU!!!&#034;</p>
<p>Maybe I`m just angry. You see. I was born im Moscow, Russia. I grew up and got my education there. I`m living there, and I don`t plan to leave anytime soon (sorry for the mistakes btw, my English isn`t exactly perfect). Attitudes towards a woman`s place in society are different here. We`re progressing, but really, really slowly. I like to read foreingh blogs because it`s nice to imagine there are better places out there. And here I read same old stuff about basically being a failure if I don`t find a man before I`m 30.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hansen</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-207606</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 05:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-207606</guid>
		<description>Interesting observations.

The problem is that many men don&#039;t want kids at all and most women do.  TO date or marry someone 15 years older just because they might be &quot;willing&quot; to have kids wouldn&#039;t work very well because they would be 55 or more by the time the kids were grown.  Many of them also are concerned with the free tme and financial stability that having kids would generally wreck.

And young women need men nearer their own age group - there&#039;s a lot more going on that just planning for kids i.e. music, travel, dancing, dining, rock concerts and sex without responsibility - all part of the fun most younger people enjoy and should - young women with that baby fixation will usually find they don&#039;t have boyfriends at all.

I would think skipping that whole idea and seeing if things develop that way over time.  I know a woman with having babies on her mind would have sent me running and most of my previous male friends as well.  My wife and I are childfree and have been married (or together) 40 years - she didn&#039;t ever want to be a parent and I&#039;m very happy about that.  She doesn&#039;t seem to be missing a thing.

Thanks for your post.

John Hansen   majorhart@sbcglobal.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting observations.</p>
<p>The problem is that many men don&#039;t want kids at all and most women do.  TO date or marry someone 15 years older just because they might be &#034;willing&#034; to have kids wouldn&#039;t work very well because they would be 55 or more by the time the kids were grown.  Many of them also are concerned with the free tme and financial stability that having kids would generally wreck.</p>
<p>And young women need men nearer their own age group &#8211; there&#039;s a lot more going on that just planning for kids i.e. music, travel, dancing, dining, rock concerts and sex without responsibility &#8211; all part of the fun most younger people enjoy and should &#8211; young women with that baby fixation will usually find they don&#039;t have boyfriends at all.</p>
<p>I would think skipping that whole idea and seeing if things develop that way over time.  I know a woman with having babies on her mind would have sent me running and most of my previous male friends as well.  My wife and I are childfree and have been married (or together) 40 years &#8211; she didn&#039;t ever want to be a parent and I&#039;m very happy about that.  She doesn&#039;t seem to be missing a thing.</p>
<p>Thanks for your post.</p>
<p>John Hansen   <a href="mailto:majorhart@sbcglobal.net">majorhart@sbcglobal.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-207467</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-207467</guid>
		<description>This is definitely thought-provoking, but doesn&#039;t discuss some of the other related issues.  For example, *how* are women supposed to focus on meeting men in their 20&#039;s while men of the same age are focused on their careers? Answer: the mismatched goals conflict.  Further, from my own experience, no 20-something male in my generation was/is interested in a woman who is baby-oriented.  If you don&#039;t have a job/career and solid plans for your own financial independence, he&#039;s not interested.  It&#039;s too much pressure for him to think about having to support you - much less future kids. Men at that age aren&#039;t interested (for the most part, though it&#039;s not true for all) in even *talking* about kids. Mention it to some men already in their 30&#039;s, and even they will find a way to excuse themselves from the conversation - even for those men who do see themselves having children one day. 

As an unmarried, childless woman in my early 30&#039;s, this is something I worry about rather often.  Unfortunately I can&#039;t turn back the clock, so I&#039;m already technically out of time, by these standards.  I considered children and family life when making career choices (even in my late teens), and I was certainly putting effort into finding a life partner.  It just turned out - for me - that none of the men I met were of like mind, and I think that this is just as much a part of the equation.  

Whether we, as women, pay much attention to what society tells us about needing to establish ourselves in our careers or not, the men who are so essential to the equation which results in children *are* paying attention. 

Even though I&#039;m happily involved in a long-term relationship now, my 30+ partner (who definitely wants kids some day) isn&#039;t interested in planning for marriage or kids right now. I have no choice but to be focused on the one thing that I can actually count on - myself, and my career. Rather, my other option would be to end a happy relationship in search of another (possibly less happy relationship) that may produce children on a shorter time line. I can&#039;t make a man have children with me (responsibly), but I am the only person I must rely on for excelling in my career.  In my career, I can truly be self-sufficient.  In making (and ideally *raising*) children, well....I can&#039;t very well (and have no wish to) do that by myself. ;) 

Perhaps the solution for today&#039;s generation of women is to date men who are much older (35+) and ready to have children, financially and emotionally, or to have children out of marriage, or with men they don&#039;t necessarily wish to keep as life partners. I would hesitate to give my younger female friends that advice, but it certainly seems to be one of very few options for your suggestion to work, in my opinion. I don&#039;t disagree with the theory or the science of fertility - just with the application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is definitely thought-provoking, but doesn&#039;t discuss some of the other related issues.  For example, *how* are women supposed to focus on meeting men in their 20&#039;s while men of the same age are focused on their careers? Answer: the mismatched goals conflict.  Further, from my own experience, no 20-something male in my generation was/is interested in a woman who is baby-oriented.  If you don&#039;t have a job/career and solid plans for your own financial independence, he&#039;s not interested.  It&#039;s too much pressure for him to think about having to support you &#8211; much less future kids. Men at that age aren&#039;t interested (for the most part, though it&#039;s not true for all) in even *talking* about kids. Mention it to some men already in their 30&#039;s, and even they will find a way to excuse themselves from the conversation &#8211; even for those men who do see themselves having children one day. </p>
<p>As an unmarried, childless woman in my early 30&#039;s, this is something I worry about rather often.  Unfortunately I can&#039;t turn back the clock, so I&#039;m already technically out of time, by these standards.  I considered children and family life when making career choices (even in my late teens), and I was certainly putting effort into finding a life partner.  It just turned out &#8211; for me &#8211; that none of the men I met were of like mind, and I think that this is just as much a part of the equation.  </p>
<p>Whether we, as women, pay much attention to what society tells us about needing to establish ourselves in our careers or not, the men who are so essential to the equation which results in children *are* paying attention. </p>
<p>Even though I&#039;m happily involved in a long-term relationship now, my 30+ partner (who definitely wants kids some day) isn&#039;t interested in planning for marriage or kids right now. I have no choice but to be focused on the one thing that I can actually count on &#8211; myself, and my career. Rather, my other option would be to end a happy relationship in search of another (possibly less happy relationship) that may produce children on a shorter time line. I can&#039;t make a man have children with me (responsibly), but I am the only person I must rely on for excelling in my career.  In my career, I can truly be self-sufficient.  In making (and ideally *raising*) children, well&#8230;.I can&#039;t very well (and have no wish to) do that by myself. ;) </p>
<p>Perhaps the solution for today&#039;s generation of women is to date men who are much older (35+) and ready to have children, financially and emotionally, or to have children out of marriage, or with men they don&#039;t necessarily wish to keep as life partners. I would hesitate to give my younger female friends that advice, but it certainly seems to be one of very few options for your suggestion to work, in my opinion. I don&#039;t disagree with the theory or the science of fertility &#8211; just with the application.</p>
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		<title>By: Connie</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-201059</link>
		<dc:creator>Connie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-201059</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.  I don&#039;t think this will work for me.  I only want to be with someone who is smart and accomplished, and I only want to be with someone who is looking for his equal in those areas, not his inferior.  So I need the school/career in order to snag the man in order to have the kid.  (By &quot;accomplished,&quot; I&#039;m not referring to hobbies.)

I do wish I could have kids first before career.

Why am I even commenting on this article?  I already think that most people are chumps anyway.  Of course I don&#039;t agree with some random article on the internet.

Never mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.  I don&#039;t think this will work for me.  I only want to be with someone who is smart and accomplished, and I only want to be with someone who is looking for his equal in those areas, not his inferior.  So I need the school/career in order to snag the man in order to have the kid.  (By &#034;accomplished,&#034; I&#039;m not referring to hobbies.)</p>
<p>I do wish I could have kids first before career.</p>
<p>Why am I even commenting on this article?  I already think that most people are chumps anyway.  Of course I don&#039;t agree with some random article on the internet.</p>
<p>Never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: tashi</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/comment-page-2/#comment-188842</link>
		<dc:creator>tashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/#comment-188842</guid>
		<description>Well this is a new one for you Penelope!
Im 25 this year, I have two kids one 5 year old daughter and one 10 mnth old son...met my husband at 13 at a cousin&#039;s party, we dated through jr high and high school and college and have been together for 12 years, you could say we&#039;re married but we still havent got the marriage party going yet!
well ofcourse it wasnt all that sweet and fairytale like, we&#039;ve had our fair share of downers....cheating, lying, abortion, fighting, breaking up, etc
well your article is a good one but we can really say i suppose when is the &quot;right&quot; time and moment to have kids, to have a career...it just comes. It wasnt in my books, but hey im here and all the better for it.
I became a better person with the journey Ive had.
I guess the best thing is, if you want it-go get it and enjoy while youre on your journey...its the journey thats important, not the destination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well this is a new one for you Penelope!<br />
Im 25 this year, I have two kids one 5 year old daughter and one 10 mnth old son&#8230;met my husband at 13 at a cousin&#039;s party, we dated through jr high and high school and college and have been together for 12 years, you could say we&#039;re married but we still havent got the marriage party going yet!<br />
well ofcourse it wasnt all that sweet and fairytale like, we&#039;ve had our fair share of downers&#8230;.cheating, lying, abortion, fighting, breaking up, etc<br />
well your article is a good one but we can really say i suppose when is the &#034;right&#034; time and moment to have kids, to have a career&#8230;it just comes. It wasnt in my books, but hey im here and all the better for it.<br />
I became a better person with the journey Ive had.<br />
I guess the best thing is, if you want it-go get it and enjoy while youre on your journey&#8230;its the journey thats important, not the destination.</p>
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