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	<title>Comments on: 4 tips for salary negotiation</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265559</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265559</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m at laurakriv@starpower.net
Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m at <a href="mailto:laurakriv@starpower.net">laurakriv@starpower.net</a><br />
Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265551</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265551</guid>
		<description>Oops, forgot to put my response in line with the conversation - What&#039;s your email address?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, forgot to put my response in line with the conversation &#8211; What&#039;s your email address?</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265548</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265548</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s your email address?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#039;s your email address?</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265547</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265547</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll let you know how it goes. Any chance you can role-play with me :) Many thanks again for your advice. This conversation has been very helpful!
Best, Laura</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ll let you know how it goes. Any chance you can role-play with me :) Many thanks again for your advice. This conversation has been very helpful!<br />
Best, Laura</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265544</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265544</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it was a mistake to disclose your current salary or your desired salary prior - as long as you were truthful and were shooting for that you really want to earn on the latter.  I wouldn&#039;t continue the conversation with someone who wanted to remain mysterious.

If your desired salary was based on assumptions about their benefits that you&#039;ve since learned are way off, then you do have room to say, &quot;I know I said X is what I&#039;d like to earn, but I&#039;ve since learned that based on the difference in benefits, I&#039;ll actually be losing Y out of pocket.&quot;  But here&#039;s the deal - it all depends on the range you&#039;re talking about.  If your desired salary was $45k, they offer it, and the difference in benefits will cost you $5k, that&#039;s substantial, and worth mentioning and asking about - in fact, I would do it before they make a real offer if - and only if - you have a conversation with them before the offer comes.  Most larger companies will have already sought the approvals for the offer amount and had it approved by HR by the time it is put in an official letter - then it&#039;s a little tougher to change, as you&#039;re asking the hiring manager to go back to the well.  That is why it would be ideal to have the conversation during a verbal offer.  I personally always make verbals before putting it in writing, since it&#039;s just not worth going through the red tape to get an offer letter out if you&#039;re not agreed on terms.

If your desired salary was $120k and the difference in real benefits cost/value to you is $3k, I&#039;d take the job and smile...it all depends on the scale of the salary, and the scale of the difference in benefits.  

If it&#039;s a small company, it won&#039;t be a problem.  Over a couple hundred employees, it starts to creep into the red tape zone.

The one key I would consider is what your TRUE out of pocket difference is.  That is, if your prior company offered matching to 6% and you didn&#039;t take advantage of it, I wouldn&#039;t argue the point too much.  If you did, it&#039;s a big deal.

Also, my 5-10 percent suggestion was based on you not having given them a desired salary.  Once you do, that option isn&#039;t really there anymore.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s important to go in knowing what it&#039;s worth to you.  If you feel like you undersold yourself on salary, I&#039;d tread carefully about renegotiating on compensation unless there&#039;s a real difference in benefits value that you recognize.

Good luck, I look forward to hearing how it goes.  Role play the conversation before it happens, so you&#039;re ready.  At least with a mirror, better with a real person, even better with someone who hires as part of their role and is used to sitting in that chair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t think it was a mistake to disclose your current salary or your desired salary prior &#8211; as long as you were truthful and were shooting for that you really want to earn on the latter.  I wouldn&#039;t continue the conversation with someone who wanted to remain mysterious.</p>
<p>If your desired salary was based on assumptions about their benefits that you&#039;ve since learned are way off, then you do have room to say, &#034;I know I said X is what I&#039;d like to earn, but I&#039;ve since learned that based on the difference in benefits, I&#039;ll actually be losing Y out of pocket.&#034;  But here&#039;s the deal &#8211; it all depends on the range you&#039;re talking about.  If your desired salary was $45k, they offer it, and the difference in benefits will cost you $5k, that&#039;s substantial, and worth mentioning and asking about &#8211; in fact, I would do it before they make a real offer if &#8211; and only if &#8211; you have a conversation with them before the offer comes.  Most larger companies will have already sought the approvals for the offer amount and had it approved by HR by the time it is put in an official letter &#8211; then it&#039;s a little tougher to change, as you&#039;re asking the hiring manager to go back to the well.  That is why it would be ideal to have the conversation during a verbal offer.  I personally always make verbals before putting it in writing, since it&#039;s just not worth going through the red tape to get an offer letter out if you&#039;re not agreed on terms.</p>
<p>If your desired salary was $120k and the difference in real benefits cost/value to you is $3k, I&#039;d take the job and smile&#8230;it all depends on the scale of the salary, and the scale of the difference in benefits.  </p>
<p>If it&#039;s a small company, it won&#039;t be a problem.  Over a couple hundred employees, it starts to creep into the red tape zone.</p>
<p>The one key I would consider is what your TRUE out of pocket difference is.  That is, if your prior company offered matching to 6% and you didn&#039;t take advantage of it, I wouldn&#039;t argue the point too much.  If you did, it&#039;s a big deal.</p>
<p>Also, my 5-10 percent suggestion was based on you not having given them a desired salary.  Once you do, that option isn&#039;t really there anymore.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s important to go in knowing what it&#039;s worth to you.  If you feel like you undersold yourself on salary, I&#039;d tread carefully about renegotiating on compensation unless there&#039;s a real difference in benefits value that you recognize.</p>
<p>Good luck, I look forward to hearing how it goes.  Role play the conversation before it happens, so you&#039;re ready.  At least with a mirror, better with a real person, even better with someone who hires as part of their role and is used to sitting in that chair.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265450</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 21:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265450</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad I found your site. Thanks for all the tips. I&#039;m asking all of this now because I&#039;m hoping that by the end of this week/early next week I will have an offer from a company I&#039;ve been interviewing with. I made the mistake in one of my interviews of telling them my current salary and telling them what I am hoping to make. They didn&#039;t seem to blink, and said this was very much in their range. Given that conversation, if they do make me an offer that is in that range that we discussed, is it still fair game for me to ask for 5 - 10 percent more as you suggest? And knowing their benefits don&#039;t compare to what I currently have (they offer no matching fund for my 401K, which I currently have, and higher health insurance premiums), do I ask for even more on top of the 5-10 percent? Many thanks!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m so glad I found your site. Thanks for all the tips. I&#039;m asking all of this now because I&#039;m hoping that by the end of this week/early next week I will have an offer from a company I&#039;ve been interviewing with. I made the mistake in one of my interviews of telling them my current salary and telling them what I am hoping to make. They didn&#039;t seem to blink, and said this was very much in their range. Given that conversation, if they do make me an offer that is in that range that we discussed, is it still fair game for me to ask for 5 &#8211; 10 percent more as you suggest? And knowing their benefits don&#039;t compare to what I currently have (they offer no matching fund for my 401K, which I currently have, and higher health insurance premiums), do I ask for even more on top of the 5-10 percent? Many thanks!!!</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265448</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 21:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265448</guid>
		<description>Yes, you are correct - you wouldn&#039;t want to bring this up after accepting an offer.  You would go through the interview process, and assuming they decide to offer you the position, when they do so they&#039;ll usually provide the salary offered at that time.  This is when you would counter offer if you choose to do so.  If it&#039;s presented verbally or in person, I would be prepared to already know what you want salary-wise, and counter politely at that time.  Frankly, even if they offer what you hope for, ask for 5-10 percent more.  My point was just that once you&#039;re hired, with most companies - especially larger organizations, you will end up in whatever their salary review schedule is, and that is the only opportunity for increases outside of a real promotion.  Today, most companies are not very generous when reviews happen, so this literally is your best opportunity to begin as strong as possible.  That said, there are always exceptions, and only you know the situation you&#039;re interviewing for.

As for your question about the value of benefits, I typically assume that the total package represents about 20-30% in benefits, 70-80% in salary.  That varies, as benefits are not always highly variable.  I would not think you&#039;d need to ask your HR rep about it, but if you have the type of relationship where this wouldn&#039;t be risky, no harm in asking I guess.  The real differences are going to be the ones you can calculate without thinking - huge differences in insurance premiums, 401(k) match, any special circumstance benefits (for instance some companies contribute to adoption fees or fertilization therapies, others don&#039;t touch either), etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, you are correct &#8211; you wouldn&#039;t want to bring this up after accepting an offer.  You would go through the interview process, and assuming they decide to offer you the position, when they do so they&#039;ll usually provide the salary offered at that time.  This is when you would counter offer if you choose to do so.  If it&#039;s presented verbally or in person, I would be prepared to already know what you want salary-wise, and counter politely at that time.  Frankly, even if they offer what you hope for, ask for 5-10 percent more.  My point was just that once you&#039;re hired, with most companies &#8211; especially larger organizations, you will end up in whatever their salary review schedule is, and that is the only opportunity for increases outside of a real promotion.  Today, most companies are not very generous when reviews happen, so this literally is your best opportunity to begin as strong as possible.  That said, there are always exceptions, and only you know the situation you&#039;re interviewing for.</p>
<p>As for your question about the value of benefits, I typically assume that the total package represents about 20-30% in benefits, 70-80% in salary.  That varies, as benefits are not always highly variable.  I would not think you&#039;d need to ask your HR rep about it, but if you have the type of relationship where this wouldn&#039;t be risky, no harm in asking I guess.  The real differences are going to be the ones you can calculate without thinking &#8211; huge differences in insurance premiums, 401(k) match, any special circumstance benefits (for instance some companies contribute to adoption fees or fertilization therapies, others don&#039;t touch either), etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265447</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 21:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265447</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for the feedback. This is really helpful. I do have a clarifying question though when you mention that the most negotiable time is when first hired. How is this so when you are hired after you agree to their offer, including the salary package? If I want to negotiate for a higher salary because the benefits package is weak compared to my current job, wouldn&#039;t I do this once they make me an offer but before I am hired? 

Also, is it reasonable to ask my current HR director what is the overall value of my current benefits package  (she knows that I am looking for a new position, and we are on good terms)? Perhaps she can help me understand the overall value of my current benefits to help me negotiate this with possible future employers. What do you think? 
Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for the feedback. This is really helpful. I do have a clarifying question though when you mention that the most negotiable time is when first hired. How is this so when you are hired after you agree to their offer, including the salary package? If I want to negotiate for a higher salary because the benefits package is weak compared to my current job, wouldn&#039;t I do this once they make me an offer but before I am hired? </p>
<p>Also, is it reasonable to ask my current HR director what is the overall value of my current benefits package  (she knows that I am looking for a new position, and we are on good terms)? Perhaps she can help me understand the overall value of my current benefits to help me negotiate this with possible future employers. What do you think?<br />
Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265439</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 19:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265439</guid>
		<description>Hi Laura,
As a hiring manager, I&#039;d laugh inside about someone using their commute as a negotiation tool.  That to me would make the person seem less interested in the job and me less likely to hire.  Don&#039;t mention it in that sense.  However, if it&#039;s helpful to you, ask about the possibility of a flexible remote working arrangement that would allow you to skip the commute some number of days per week, AFTER you have earned respect in the position, and assuming you&#039;ve proven yourself self-manageable.  As for the benefits, you do need to look at the comparison as total compensation, including benefits, for you to compare.  So, in that sense, it&#039;s perfectly fair for you to point out that right now your overall compensation is worth X more due to Y, and therefore you&#039;d like to see your salary at Z.  Your most negotiable time is when first hired.  Don&#039;t pass the opportunity to at least ask for more, it&#039;s the time the hiring manager will have the most flexibility to provide it; and depending on where you are in their acceptable range, may not need any further approvals.  That said, if you&#039;re at the top of their range, the answer could be &quot;no&quot;.  But, there&#039;s no harm in asking if you position it right, and make your case professionally...and do it in person or at the very least - verbally.  I&#039;d love to hear how it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Laura,<br />
As a hiring manager, I&#039;d laugh inside about someone using their commute as a negotiation tool.  That to me would make the person seem less interested in the job and me less likely to hire.  Don&#039;t mention it in that sense.  However, if it&#039;s helpful to you, ask about the possibility of a flexible remote working arrangement that would allow you to skip the commute some number of days per week, AFTER you have earned respect in the position, and assuming you&#039;ve proven yourself self-manageable.  As for the benefits, you do need to look at the comparison as total compensation, including benefits, for you to compare.  So, in that sense, it&#039;s perfectly fair for you to point out that right now your overall compensation is worth X more due to Y, and therefore you&#039;d like to see your salary at Z.  Your most negotiable time is when first hired.  Don&#039;t pass the opportunity to at least ask for more, it&#039;s the time the hiring manager will have the most flexibility to provide it; and depending on where you are in their acceptable range, may not need any further approvals.  That said, if you&#039;re at the top of their range, the answer could be &#034;no&#034;.  But, there&#039;s no harm in asking if you position it right, and make your case professionally&#8230;and do it in person or at the very least &#8211; verbally.  I&#039;d love to hear how it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-265433</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 19:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-265433</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m looking for some advice on two specific things. First, if the job looks great but its a really long commute, can I use the long commute (and something I am dreading) as a negotiating chip to earn more money? Or is it something that I just should deal with (it is what it is) and it should have no relation to the salary offered? My second question is, if this job looks great but their benefits package looks weak whats the best way of trying to negotiate a higher salary to compensate for the losses in the benefits package. Thanks for any advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m looking for some advice on two specific things. First, if the job looks great but its a really long commute, can I use the long commute (and something I am dreading) as a negotiating chip to earn more money? Or is it something that I just should deal with (it is what it is) and it should have no relation to the salary offered? My second question is, if this job looks great but their benefits package looks weak whats the best way of trying to negotiate a higher salary to compensate for the losses in the benefits package. Thanks for any advice.</p>
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