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	<title>Comments on: 4 tips for salary negotiation</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
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		<title>By: Fates &#38; Fortunes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Simon Cowell&#8217;s lessons in salary negotiation</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-190546</link>
		<dc:creator>Fates &#38; Fortunes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Simon Cowell&#8217;s lessons in salary negotiation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-190546</guid>
		<description>[...] Penelope Trunk’s Brazen Careerist says to never start discussing salary until you’ve gotten a written offer, at which point you know the company wants you. Penelope offers specific language to help you defer having a salary conversation until you have more control over it. You can directly say, “I’d like to postpone that conversation until the offer stage.” If the interviewer continues to push, which is likely, you can ask him what he considers the job’s salary range to be. Once that number is disclosed, you say can “that would be a fine place to start” and move on. That way, you are not pushed into either low- or high-balling yourself. No matter how much research you’ve done, the would-be employer knows more than you do about how much he can pay you. Your increased control comes with the written offer. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Penelope Trunk’s Brazen Careerist says to never start discussing salary until you’ve gotten a written offer, at which point you know the company wants you. Penelope offers specific language to help you defer having a salary conversation until you have more control over it. You can directly say, “I’d like to postpone that conversation until the offer stage.” If the interviewer continues to push, which is likely, you can ask him what he considers the job’s salary range to be. Once that number is disclosed, you say can “that would be a fine place to start” and move on. That way, you are not pushed into either low- or high-balling yourself. No matter how much research you’ve done, the would-be employer knows more than you do about how much he can pay you. Your increased control comes with the written offer. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-186195</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 16:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-186195</guid>
		<description>If it was a short term contract, not in line with the amount you were earning in your prior positions, then I would provide that data with numbers from those positions as back up.  I too have been faced with much higher prior salaries from candidates, and while generally people don&#039;t want to go lower than previous pay, in this economy, people will sometimes do anything to secure an offer.  As a manager, I don&#039;t care to bite on that bate, since the person is likely to be a short-term hire, and that is just painful for everyone involved.

While I would not have gone further with a candidate who was paid two or three times the expected earnings of a position, I certainly would be open minded if that candidate also explained not just that it was a short term contract, etc...but rather that all positions prior to the windfall role were paid in line with expected earnings for the position, with an example or two.  That&#039;s part of why I don&#039;t just ask for most recent salary...I recently had a candidate who had only been with their current employer 9 months, and my query exposed that they&#039;d received a 25% salary bump in that move.  I&#039;m not going to tack on another 25% to move them to my company; that&#039;s insane unless they&#039;re just that valuable.  

Shame on the recruiter for being closed minded enough to not ask about prior roles once you disclosed the anomaly of your last position, but it&#039;s up to you to set their concerns aside, not the recruiter.  Perhaps you were this specific and just didn&#039;t mention it in your post.  If that&#039;s the case, I&#039;d say this was just a poor recruiter, and that can happen in any situation - if it doesn&#039;t click, it doesn&#039;t, and if it&#039;s a reflection on the company&#039;s mentality, you&#039;re probably better off without them too.  That said, if this is a pattern of the conversations with the employment you&#039;re seeking, I&#039;d adjust your strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it was a short term contract, not in line with the amount you were earning in your prior positions, then I would provide that data with numbers from those positions as back up.  I too have been faced with much higher prior salaries from candidates, and while generally people don&#039;t want to go lower than previous pay, in this economy, people will sometimes do anything to secure an offer.  As a manager, I don&#039;t care to bite on that bate, since the person is likely to be a short-term hire, and that is just painful for everyone involved.</p>
<p>While I would not have gone further with a candidate who was paid two or three times the expected earnings of a position, I certainly would be open minded if that candidate also explained not just that it was a short term contract, etc&#8230;but rather that all positions prior to the windfall role were paid in line with expected earnings for the position, with an example or two.  That&#039;s part of why I don&#039;t just ask for most recent salary&#8230;I recently had a candidate who had only been with their current employer 9 months, and my query exposed that they&#039;d received a 25% salary bump in that move.  I&#039;m not going to tack on another 25% to move them to my company; that&#039;s insane unless they&#039;re just that valuable.  </p>
<p>Shame on the recruiter for being closed minded enough to not ask about prior roles once you disclosed the anomaly of your last position, but it&#039;s up to you to set their concerns aside, not the recruiter.  Perhaps you were this specific and just didn&#039;t mention it in your post.  If that&#039;s the case, I&#039;d say this was just a poor recruiter, and that can happen in any situation &#8211; if it doesn&#039;t click, it doesn&#039;t, and if it&#039;s a reflection on the company&#039;s mentality, you&#039;re probably better off without them too.  That said, if this is a pattern of the conversations with the employment you&#039;re seeking, I&#039;d adjust your strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Julianne</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-186191</link>
		<dc:creator>Julianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 15:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-186191</guid>
		<description>I was once in a salary negotiation where the recruiter told me they were planning to make me an offer (note: that was verbal, not in writing), and then asked me what I was making at that time.  I explained that my hourly salary at that time was for a short-term contract, so it was not comparable to what I was looking for in a more stable job.  I did not tell the recruiter what I was making because it would have been ludicrous to imply that it was my expectation (I was making $60/hour in a freak situation where I was the only person who could do the job, but normal would have been more like $20/hour and I would have been delighted with $25).

Well, the recruiter asked me over and over and over and over again over multiple phone calls.  I told him literally at least five times that my current salary was not relevant to the job they were planning to make me an offer for, and asked what they were planning to pay.  After a while he told me that they could not offer me a position if I didn&#039;t answer the question, so I said yet again that I was currently in a very short term and unusual position, and that I did not expect to make anything like this wage at a steady job, and told him I was making $60/hour.  He said he would get back to me, and I never heard from him again.  I phoned him back a few days later to ask what was going on, and he said, &quot;Oh, you&#039;re too rich for our blood!&quot; to tell me they were not going to make the offer.

This was, needless to say, extremely frustrating, particularly since I had explicitly told them that I wasn&#039;t expecting my current salary at the new job.  What should I have done, lied and made up a number that was only a bit high for the normal pay for that job?  I&#039;ve wondered since then if they had no real plan to offer me a position and would have withdrawn the proposed offer no matter what I had said -- is that at all likely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was once in a salary negotiation where the recruiter told me they were planning to make me an offer (note: that was verbal, not in writing), and then asked me what I was making at that time.  I explained that my hourly salary at that time was for a short-term contract, so it was not comparable to what I was looking for in a more stable job.  I did not tell the recruiter what I was making because it would have been ludicrous to imply that it was my expectation (I was making $60/hour in a freak situation where I was the only person who could do the job, but normal would have been more like $20/hour and I would have been delighted with $25).</p>
<p>Well, the recruiter asked me over and over and over and over again over multiple phone calls.  I told him literally at least five times that my current salary was not relevant to the job they were planning to make me an offer for, and asked what they were planning to pay.  After a while he told me that they could not offer me a position if I didn&#039;t answer the question, so I said yet again that I was currently in a very short term and unusual position, and that I did not expect to make anything like this wage at a steady job, and told him I was making $60/hour.  He said he would get back to me, and I never heard from him again.  I phoned him back a few days later to ask what was going on, and he said, &#034;Oh, you&#039;re too rich for our blood!&#034; to tell me they were not going to make the offer.</p>
<p>This was, needless to say, extremely frustrating, particularly since I had explicitly told them that I wasn&#039;t expecting my current salary at the new job.  What should I have done, lied and made up a number that was only a bit high for the normal pay for that job?  I&#039;ve wondered since then if they had no real plan to offer me a position and would have withdrawn the proposed offer no matter what I had said &#8212; is that at all likely?</p>
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		<title>By: GHG</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-185210</link>
		<dc:creator>GHG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 19:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-185210</guid>
		<description>$10k is nothing?  You&#039;re right, if you&#039;re already earning decent money.  However, if this person is lower on the payscale and it&#039;s $25k -vs-$35k, that&#039;s definitely life changing.  I understand the argument for the &quot;huge learning opportunity&quot;, but those don&#039;t always pay off...I wouldn&#039;t recommend someone jump ship for a lesser salary in this economy without knowing the facts around the information provided.  Also, the suggestions for negotiating are nice, but I can tell you that as a hiring manager, I won&#039;t even waste my time on someone who is unwilling to disclose their current salary, and expectations upfront.  The recommendations make sense when dealing with jobs paying around $150k and higher - but I can tell you that when I hire someone for under $100k/yr, it&#039;s just not worth my time to deal with someone who thinks they&#039;re a smart negotiator.  This advice would risk someone&#039;s likelihood of making a jump successfully in my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$10k is nothing?  You&#039;re right, if you&#039;re already earning decent money.  However, if this person is lower on the payscale and it&#039;s $25k -vs-$35k, that&#039;s definitely life changing.  I understand the argument for the &#034;huge learning opportunity&#034;, but those don&#039;t always pay off&#8230;I wouldn&#039;t recommend someone jump ship for a lesser salary in this economy without knowing the facts around the information provided.  Also, the suggestions for negotiating are nice, but I can tell you that as a hiring manager, I won&#039;t even waste my time on someone who is unwilling to disclose their current salary, and expectations upfront.  The recommendations make sense when dealing with jobs paying around $150k and higher &#8211; but I can tell you that when I hire someone for under $100k/yr, it&#039;s just not worth my time to deal with someone who thinks they&#039;re a smart negotiator.  This advice would risk someone&#039;s likelihood of making a jump successfully in my mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Negotiating Your Salary: How to Make $1,000 a Minute - Collab.r.nation</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-185181</link>
		<dc:creator>Negotiating Your Salary: How to Make $1,000 a Minute - Collab.r.nation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 12:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-185181</guid>
		<description>[...] more information on this subject, check out 4 tips for salary negotiation from Penelope [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more information on this subject, check out 4 tips for salary negotiation from Penelope [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cajeba</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-183298</link>
		<dc:creator>cajeba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-183298</guid>
		<description>What about those instances in which a recruiter is forthcoming about the salary range in the very first phone conversation, but even the high end of the range is below what I&#039;m looking to make? Is it worth still going for the interview? Can negotiations ever bring me beyond the high end of that range? If so, how do I respond when they ask if that range is acceptable to me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about those instances in which a recruiter is forthcoming about the salary range in the very first phone conversation, but even the high end of the range is below what I&#039;m looking to make? Is it worth still going for the interview? Can negotiations ever bring me beyond the high end of that range? If so, how do I respond when they ask if that range is acceptable to me?</p>
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		<title>By: Penelope Trunk</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-178883</link>
		<dc:creator>Penelope Trunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-178883</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt; $10k is nothing. After taxes it&#039;s more like $8K. Which is nothing per week. It&#039;s not gonna change your life. Take the job that will be amazing. If you keep making that decision -- instead of a decision about $8K -- you will get financial stability by having star power in your career.

-Penelope&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> $10k is nothing. After taxes it&#039;s more like $8K. Which is nothing per week. It&#039;s not gonna change your life. Take the job that will be amazing. If you keep making that decision &#8212; instead of a decision about $8K &#8212; you will get financial stability by having star power in your career.</p>
<p>-Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: WWPTD</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-178858</link>
		<dc:creator>WWPTD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-178858</guid>
		<description>Hey Penelope, I&#039;m huge fan of yours and a fellow ENTJ. I have a question: how much is happiness vs. financial stability worth exactly? I am a finalist for an amazing position at a small company (I currently work at a huge corporation) with huge learning opportunities and may get an offer in the next couple of days. The only problem? The starting salary is 10K less than I currently make. I believe I can negotiate it up somewhat, but am unsure what my minimum should be, given that I am in a tremendous amount of student loan debt. What would Penelope Trunk Do (WWPTD)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Penelope, I&#039;m huge fan of yours and a fellow ENTJ. I have a question: how much is happiness vs. financial stability worth exactly? I am a finalist for an amazing position at a small company (I currently work at a huge corporation) with huge learning opportunities and may get an offer in the next couple of days. The only problem? The starting salary is 10K less than I currently make. I believe I can negotiate it up somewhat, but am unsure what my minimum should be, given that I am in a tremendous amount of student loan debt. What would Penelope Trunk Do (WWPTD)?</p>
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		<title>By: Poor Negotiator</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-160256</link>
		<dc:creator>Poor Negotiator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-160256</guid>
		<description>Do you have any advice if you had given a range that you have a suspicion is too low to the recruiter? I wish I had read your post before I made the blunder :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have any advice if you had given a range that you have a suspicion is too low to the recruiter? I wish I had read your post before I made the blunder :(</p>
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		<title>By: The Best Job Hunt Post: Top 40 Links From The Web &#124; Green Panda Treehouse</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/comment-page-1/#comment-153769</link>
		<dc:creator>The Best Job Hunt Post: Top 40 Links From The Web &#124; Green Panda Treehouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/12/11/4-tips-for-salary-negotiation/#comment-153769</guid>
		<description>[...] 4 tips for salary negotiation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 4 tips for salary negotiation [...]</p>
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