Comments on: Balance fearlessness with attention to detail http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:37:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Paula http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-126769 Paula Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:49:06 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-126769 "Detail oriented" is a common phrase on resumes, but it isn't a common trait, and that's a pity. For every big-picture, fast-action person, there needs to be at least one detail-oriented person to proofread their (sometimes brilliant) writing, remind them of their appointments, and tell them they have spinach on their teeth before they go to the press conference. Businesses, and indeed the world, need both types of people, and people who can switch from one mode to the other. "Detail oriented" is a common phrase on resumes, but it isn't a common trait, and that's a pity. For every big-picture, fast-action person, there needs to be at least one detail-oriented person to proofread their (sometimes brilliant) writing, remind them of their appointments, and tell them they have spinach on their teeth before they go to the press conference. Businesses, and indeed the world, need both types of people, and people who can switch from one mode to the other.

]]> By: Daniel http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-104795 Daniel Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:32:29 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-104795 Darren, You're right on. I think I know what Penelope was getting at, but, if anything, I find myself wishing people were more attentive to details. I mean, think about it -- inattention to detail is why your waiter gets your order wrong at Applebee's, why drivers get in avoidable wrecks, why the email at your company is ungrammatical and barely readable. I was brought up to believe that the quality of your work reflects on you as a person, and I definitely have less respect for people who are constantly half-assing their work. I would modify Penelope's statement to say that some jobs (like NASA) need to be 100% perfect, most only need to be 99% perfect, and if you're an absolute beginner, you can get by with 75% perfect. Darren,

You're right on. I think I know what Penelope was getting at, but, if anything, I find myself wishing people were more attentive to details. I mean, think about it — inattention to detail is why your waiter gets your order wrong at Applebee's, why drivers get in avoidable wrecks, why the email at your company is ungrammatical and barely readable. I was brought up to believe that the quality of your work reflects on you as a person, and I definitely have less respect for people who are constantly half-assing their work. I would modify Penelope's statement to say that some jobs (like NASA) need to be 100% perfect, most only need to be 99% perfect, and if you're an absolute beginner, you can get by with 75% perfect.

]]> By: Darren http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-69419 Darren Fri, 11 May 2007 01:38:47 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-69419 "I associate details with perfectionism and I think perfectionism is a disease that undermines everyone who has it." I'm sorry, but this is inexcusably sloppy thinking from someone who purports to be qualified to offer career advice (to perfectionists, no less!) You need to show that you grasp the difference between attention to detail and perfectionism if you want to write intelligently on this subject. Granted, "perfectionism" as distinct from attention to detail is a real condition, and as a person who suffers from it I think some of your insights have value. (They'd have even more value without your smug and unsympathetic tone.... something tells me you're still angry at the sixth grade teacher who corrected your spelling.) Many jobs *need* to be done 99% perfectly. In my experience, 70% is very, very much the exception, not the rule. And it is not unhealthy to want to perform quality work... some people actually take pride in getting the details right, and I doubt they'll be lying on their deathbeds wishing they'd done everything as half-assed as they could get away with. "I associate details with perfectionism and I think perfectionism is a disease that undermines everyone who has it."

I'm sorry, but this is inexcusably sloppy thinking from someone who purports to be qualified to offer career advice (to perfectionists, no less!) You need to show that you grasp the difference between attention to detail and perfectionism if you want to write intelligently on this subject.

Granted, "perfectionism" as distinct from attention to detail is a real condition, and as a person who suffers from it I think some of your insights have value. (They'd have even more value without your smug and unsympathetic tone…. something tells me you're still angry at the sixth grade teacher who corrected your spelling.)

Many jobs *need* to be done 99% perfectly. In my experience, 70% is very, very much the exception, not the rule. And it is not unhealthy to want to perform quality work… some people actually take pride in getting the details right, and I doubt they'll be lying on their deathbeds wishing they'd done everything as half-assed as they could get away with.

]]> By: William Bond http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63240 William Bond Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:16:29 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63240 Interesting. I know of a couple cases where the people in charge were not detailed oriented. We lost 2 GPS satellites and 2 space shuttles but what the heck. Those people didn't "sweat the details". I just don't have enough money to send flowers to all the people that will be dead because some moran didn't "sweat the details"! O, yes I also know of a company that adapted your "don't sweat the details". They went from number one to number three. Love your advice...IF I AM SELLING SHORT!!! Interesting. I know of a couple cases where the people in charge were not detailed oriented. We lost 2 GPS satellites and 2 space shuttles but what the heck. Those people didn't "sweat the details". I just don't have enough money to send flowers to all the people that will be dead because some moran didn't "sweat the details"! O, yes I also know of a company that adapted your "don't sweat the details". They went from number one to number three.
Love your advice…IF I AM SELLING SHORT!!!

]]> By: Neil http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63220 Neil Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:48:00 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63220 I agree with Anshuman's posted comment of APR 26, 2007. I agree with Anshuman's posted comment of APR 26, 2007.

]]> By: Olu Oyenigba http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63218 Olu Oyenigba Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:44:43 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63218 Brilliant articles Brilliant articles

]]> By: Anshuman Singh http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63209 Anshuman Singh Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:23:58 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-63209 OK .. After reading a few posts from you regarding this, and the respective comments, I just had to comment. Let me start out by saying, I believe I am not detail-oriented. I am an engineer, with an MBA, an ambition and a lot of energy. In fact, I used to have constant struggle with many detail-oriented engineers in my work, so I finally came with "SKIP THE DETAILS" red cards (like football .. umm .. soccer .. red-cards) and passed it around in my office, so that people who went into too much detail can be stopped as politely as possible. That said, there is a difference in beign detail-oriented, and being plain careless and lackadaisical. Your blunder (gasp, yes, blunder) on the insurance stuff _is_ carelessness. Using a laser leveler is detail-oriented. A visibly crooked frame on the wall is carelessness. People who work at NASA cannot afford to not be detail-oriented _when it comes to their work_. When it comes to their clothes, or sandwich - sure, they'd wear mismatched socks. Point is, One needs to make their own judgement about when to be detail-oriented. That's where maturity and intellect comes into play. When you're doing something for the first time, sure - go ahead and "just do it" - if a failure is not going to harm people. If you are doing it for the tenth time, you better pay attention to details, because otherwise you'd never improve and get better. So the idea is not to berate "detail-orientation" or the lack of it (which I have referred to as "having broad perspective" in my career. It's to have the _correct_ perspective - whether that needs to be a high-level view or detail-oriented, depends on the context. * * * * * * * <I>This is a great comment. Thanks. You remind me that I have relied on detail-oriented people many times in my life. And thank goodness people have different skills because that makes for better teams. Also, you make a great point that the way to get better at doing something rquires a lot of repetition with a complete focus on the details. Reminds me of how I learned to jump serve in volleyball by dissecting the jump serve into fifteen discreet motions, and perfecting each one by serving 100 balls a day. --Penelope</I> OK .. After reading a few posts from you regarding this, and the respective comments, I just had to comment.

Let me start out by saying, I believe I am not detail-oriented. I am an engineer, with an MBA, an ambition and a lot of energy. In fact, I used to have constant struggle with many detail-oriented engineers in my work, so I finally came with "SKIP THE DETAILS" red cards (like football .. umm .. soccer .. red-cards) and passed it around in my office, so that people who went into too much detail can be stopped as politely as possible.

That said, there is a difference in beign detail-oriented, and being plain careless and lackadaisical. Your blunder (gasp, yes, blunder) on the insurance stuff _is_ carelessness. Using a laser leveler is detail-oriented. A visibly crooked frame on the wall is carelessness. People who work at NASA cannot afford to not be detail-oriented _when it comes to their work_. When it comes to their clothes, or sandwich - sure, they'd wear mismatched socks.

Point is, One needs to make their own judgement about when to be detail-oriented. That's where maturity and intellect comes into play. When you're doing something for the first time, sure - go ahead and "just do it" - if a failure is not going to harm people. If you are doing it for the tenth time, you better pay attention to details, because otherwise you'd never improve and get better.

So the idea is not to berate "detail-orientation" or the lack of it (which I have referred to as "having broad perspective" in my career. It's to have the _correct_ perspective - whether that needs to be a high-level view or detail-oriented, depends on the context.

* * * * * * *

This is a great comment. Thanks. You remind me that I have relied on detail-oriented people many times in my life. And thank goodness people have different skills because that makes for better teams.

Also, you make a great point that the way to get better at doing something rquires a lot of repetition with a complete focus on the details. Reminds me of how I learned to jump serve in volleyball by dissecting the jump serve into fifteen discreet motions, and perfecting each one by serving 100 balls a day.

–Penelope

]]> By: Derek http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-55088 Derek Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:54:38 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-55088 Interesting and compelling article Penelope. I am going to lose my job in 2 1/2 weeks. I told my boss before she hired me that she needed a data specialist who could go in with a microscope and deal with the details, and I told her that wasn't me. My prior successes had come from my strategic thinking, big picture vision, and ability to orchestrate change. She said that was what she wanted, the strategic big picture business manager... maybe what she wanted, not what she needed. Three years later, I'm still strategic rather than detail oriented and she has realized that it isn't working. Ironically I just read in todays Yahoo Hotjobs advice section that "detail oriented" was one of the four key terms to have on your resume. Bothersome at best. Interesting and compelling article Penelope. I am going to lose my job in 2 1/2 weeks. I told my boss before she hired me that she needed a data specialist who could go in with a microscope and deal with the details, and I told her that wasn't me. My prior successes had come from my strategic thinking, big picture vision, and ability to orchestrate change. She said that was what she wanted, the strategic big picture business manager… maybe what she wanted, not what she needed. Three years later, I'm still strategic rather than detail oriented and she has realized that it isn't working. Ironically I just read in todays Yahoo Hotjobs advice section that "detail oriented" was one of the four key terms to have on your resume. Bothersome at best.

]]> By: Daniel http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-45791 Daniel Tue, 20 Mar 2007 05:31:04 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-45791 THANK YOU for saying that you are NOT a detail oriented person. I am so tired of seeing resume after resume (in resume/cover letter books) that say "detail oriented" and "attention to detail." I don't consider myself a detail person either, and I want to ask you, how can people like me use that as empowerment when "detail oriented" seems to be the norm in every cover letter and resume? <strong>* * * * * *</strong> <I>Good question, Daniel. Here's what I do when I see "detail oriented" in a job description. I ignore it. Because anyone who would need the skills I have -- leading, managing, prioritizing, executing big unruly projects -- probably does not need attention to detail from me. So I go to the interview and try to get the job without saying that I have good attention for details. --Penelope</I> THANK YOU for saying that you are NOT a detail oriented person. I am so tired of seeing resume after resume (in resume/cover letter books) that say "detail oriented" and "attention to detail." I don't consider myself a detail person either, and I want to ask you, how can people like me use that as empowerment when "detail oriented" seems to be the norm in every cover letter and resume?

* * * * * *

Good question, Daniel. Here's what I do when I see "detail oriented" in a job description. I ignore it. Because anyone who would need the skills I have — leading, managing, prioritizing, executing big unruly projects — probably does not need attention to detail from me. So I go to the interview and try to get the job without saying that I have good attention for details.

–Penelope

]]> By: Brazen Careerist http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-601 Brazen Careerist Tue, 01 Aug 2006 00:18:43 +0000 http://lolindrath.dyndns.org/lolindrath/wordpress/2003/04/07/balance-fearlessness-with-attention-to-detail/#comment-601 <strong>Balance fearlessness with attention to detail</strong> Three weeks ago I wrote a column about dealing with war anxiety. I interviewed my family (what else is new?) and then wrote about my brother Mike’s worries about life insurance. Then this guy, Paul, started sending emails to me:... Balance fearlessness with attention to detail

Three weeks ago I wrote a column about dealing with war anxiety. I interviewed my family (what else is new?) and then wrote about my brother Mike’s worries about life insurance. Then this guy, Paul, started sending emails to me:…

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